Triumph TR7 Rear deck soft top rails

[johnm]

Hi,
Has anyone refitted the two curved rails that the hood/top attaches to on the rear quarter deck of a convertible.
I am building up a stripped shell and have got to this stage. The problem seems to be that the correct sized rivets don't actually go through the hood stud base, the outer part of the rail and the body flange sufficiently for the rivet to get a good purchase on the body flange.
I can get one or two to work but the rest not. The problem seems to be that the rivet comes up against the inside face of the curved rail and that stops it seating completely. I don't want to drill right through the rail (both inner and outer faces) and use a longer rivet as that will leave an unsightly line of fixings visible inside the car.
Obviously Triumph didn't have this problem when they vehicle was manufactured but I fail to see how they did it. I am using the correct sized rivets, a rather short bodied version because of the restricted space.
Any help would be very gratefully received as I am currently stuck on this particular aspect of the rebuild (mind you, plenty still to keep me busy so it isn't holding up progress just yet).

[FI Spyder]

I used longer than standard rivets and did it as a two step process, pulling on the rivet shaft a bit, then repositioning the rivet tool for a second pull to tighten and break the shaft.

[busheytrader]

Albeit very late, I just noticed this thread.

I had previous issues with the pop rivets not expanding sufficiently to hold against the rear panel / trim. The advice I had from one of our specialists was to place a small stainless steel washer on the inside of the cabin for the rivet to expand against. IIRC I had to drill a small hole through the aluminium trim to facilitate this In short the rivet expands against the washer which then holds fast against the trim.

[Steve @ SandS]

Albeit very late, I just noticed this thread.

I had previous issues with the pop rivets not expanding sufficiently to hold against the rear panel / trim. The advice I had from one of our specialists was to place a small stainless steel washer on the inside of the cabin for the rivet to expand against. IIRC I had to drill a small hole through the aluminium trim to facilitate this In short the rivet expands against the washer which then holds fast against the trim.

Have to disagree with that. Use a slightly longer than std rivet, make sure it's an alloy rivet not steel and just push the rivet hard home with the rivet pliers and let the rivet do all the work pulling itself into position.

[FI Spyder]

I have done it both ways. If the hole is a little enlarged the extra washer may be necessary. Nearly impossible to position the washer with the trim on I sand the washer down a bit to make it thinner and preposition the washer in place with something like trim glue or Shoe Goo (rubber cement is usually not firm enough) with trim off and using a rivet as a guide. There is a bit of art to it so some practise tries may be necessary depending how adept you are to using new techniques.

[busheytrader]

Have to disagree with that. Use a slightly longer than std rivet, make sure it's an alloy rivet not steel and just push the rivet hard home with the rivet pliers and let the rivet do all the work pulling itself into position.

Hi Steve, The problem I had was that the bodywork was restored and the hood replaced by a tricycle maker (10 days promised but 10 weeks delivered) back in the late 90's. The male hood studs they fitted had a metal centre with a plastic ring - cup on the outside which were bound to fail with time, which they did after a few years. Upon careful removal a lot of the studs' locating holes on the rear wings and aluminium trim were of different shapes and sizes. It wasn't due to me as the locating holes still had paint on them, no bare metal when I removed the studs. It looked like the original pop rivets hadn't been too carefully removed by said restorer, the car went to them with the original hood and trim.

I bought new all metal studs but I couldn't get hold of any pop rivets that would spread wide enough behind the locating holes in the rear wings but weren't too fat to fit inside the front of the stud. I tried several. (A photo would help but I don't have one). Hence the stainless steel washer at the back of the rivet.

In short, I wish you guys had done the bodywork at the time.......

[Beans]

From my own experience on two DHC's I have to agree with Steve!

[sonscar]

Try a fatter longer rivet and sand the head smaller so it fits.You could weld up the holes and redrilling them but I would class this as a very last resort.Steve

[busheytrader]

Try a fatter longer rivet and sand the head smaller so it fits.You could weld up the holes and redrilling them but I would class this as a very last resort.Steve

No1 sounds like it would have been a viable solution.

No 2 would have worked but unfortunately burnt the paint off the rear wings

[johnm]

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies. I had tried the technique of giving the rivet a gentle squeeze, then moving the tool and repeating. Sadly, only worked on the holes I could get a rivet in normally.
Also tried the small washer glued to the flange but apart from the difficulty of locating it (the curved rails don't necessarily sit in line with the flange holes), that didn't seem to give me any more purchase.
In the end, I accepted that I was going to have to drill through both faces of the curved rail. In the interests of making it look neat, I used M3 x 16mm black set screws and black M3 Acorn nuts on the inside face (all except the rearmost fixing where an M3 half nut was used as it is behind the carpet board and you don't want the height of the acorn nut) It isn't ideal (i.e. not as per the factory) but it has given a neat and very solid fixing for the hood studs. Also, much easier to dismantle should it all need to come off again at some future point.
Sorry not to have responded to all the helpful comments before but better late than never.

[jeffremj]

On my car, I noticed that there was a slight cutout such that a spire clip (u-clip) thing could be used, together with an appropriately sized self tapping screw. Been OK for many years.

[johnm]

The spire nut ideal is a good one. I don't have any notches on the body flange but that said, I can't see a reason why a spire nut wouldn't fit anyway as I don't think the curved rails are hard down on the top of the flange.
I will remember that if I ever have the misfortune to do it again!

[whitenviro]

I had a few of the holes that had been enlarged to the point the new rivets wouldn't work, no matter what size I tried or how much I sanded the edges to fit inside the snap. I eventually had to drill through both sides of the trim piece. I ended up using black tubular rivets (also called cutlery rivets), so there was a nice flush mounted smooth faced stud on the inside. It took a few tries to get the right length, but in the end they are almost invisible.

[gorann24]

Hi All,
This might be a step backwards for this thread, but I am about to remove my hood and frame from the car and have stripped all the carpet from the rear to get at the rear deck soft top rails. Now as this is my first TR7 this is the first time I have looked here,and I am wondering is the rails held in by rivets, ( I am not sure if mine are rivets or small bolts they are that rusty), do I just cut them to get to the rails.
Thanks in advance for any information.

[saabfast]

The rear rail slots into a pocket in the hood and has studs. The new hood needs holes cut for the studs to protrude. These then pass through the rear deck with nuts on the underside. If you have removed the carpeted upstand (held with self tappers) you should be able to see the studs and nuts.
The rivets you can see outside holding the press studs are short and only go through the rail, not into the car, for fixing the hood bag.

If you are using a vinyl hood it is best to do it on a warm/hot day or it is too stiff. Mohair hoods are easier in that way. When you come to fix it to the front rail fix it about 15mm short so that it is stretched tight when closed.

Good luck, it not too bad a job if you take your time.