advice please - TR7 V8 potential purchase PMJ 91W

[grumpyoldman]

Hi there im a newbie here .....
So just to set the scene here I had a maroon 1982 2.0 TR7 drophead when i was young and single which i adored [my first proper sports car ] -it was always losing coolant despite me sending it back to the delears until the head gasket went one day on the M62 on my way to Oldham, but fortuantely it had BL supercover -once that was all sorted i had a lot of fun in that car -a great puller with the young ladies even for an ugly munter like me -I can still recall an epic trip to Scotland with a gorgeous young lady where i was clearly punching well above my weight .
Anyway im now thinking of dipping my toe into the water again possibly for nostalgic reasons [not good i know ] ....and its a good time of year to buy .
[http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C667422]
I saw this one based in North Scotingland and wondered if anyone knew about this car which seems to have quite a few ticks in boxes .
I asked the seller a few simple questions and there were some points which gave me cause for concern which makes me think I should proceed no further .But my heart tells me otherwise [never a good sign I know ] .
He tells me he has only had the car less than year which kind of worries me -usual story about no space in the garage and lack of use etc ....
He said he couldn't tell me about the oil pressure -now from what i recall there is as an oil pressure gauge -otherwise its tricky to know if the engine is OK, although i appreciate these are strong blocks as a rule .Also he couldnt tell what rubber was on the car -i have a theory that people who look after their cars invest in decent rubber and not budget stuff ,especially on a fast sports car like this.
In fact I had the same block on an Westie with exactly the same manifold and carb set up and vitesse pistons ,flowed and polished head etc -which made such a lovely noise and had lots of smooth low down useable torque .I also previously had a a TVR wedge [I actually like the old school shape ] with the 4.6 cross bolted mains lump -which turned out to be a horrendous money pit and a joyless experience [along with a subsequent TVR S2 just to give that itch a proper good scratch again ] -so i feel like i have served my penance in that regard .
I also asked him for a print out of the dyno sheet from when the engine was set up but he said he didnt have that either or indeed any source documents for the engine parts when it was built -which all seems rather odd -he apparently bought it off the previous owner who did all the work-i suppose i could get his or her details and get it that way perhaps [a bit intrusive ] .Surely anyone going to all that trouble and spending that kind of money would at least get it properly jetted on a rolling road .
So without that mechanical provenance i'ts just another V8 conversion as far as im concerned .I always like to see lots of receipts and a proper build sheet [incl photos with the head off etc ] so i know what i'm letting msyelf in for -not to mention the importance of this info when selling it on . Im am not in any way mechanically minded so I wont be tinkering with the car .
Im still ummhing and arrhing about going to see the car at this juncture and he has asked me to make him a reasonable offer which I cant do till i've seen and driven it .
So to all your TR7 sages out there -what are the things to look out for in terms of the mechanicals ,chassis ,electricals and body -im guessing these are very prone to rust all over like any BL car from that era where they used cheap job lot shoddy steel .
Finally what's it worth realistically without the documentation for the build -my guess from looking at other examples is that it if drives ok and isn't a rust bucket ,then circa 3K would be top dollar for what is a plane jane V8 conversion -with a proper dyno and all the tech documentation then maybe around 3.5-4.0 K perhaps ?
Would you advocate putting it on a ramp first before buying if he'd let me do that [doubtfull ] ?
Any advice would be gratefully received .
Kind Regards,Grumpyoldman

[Hasbeen]

Hi Grumpy. I can see where you're coming from, but receipt files can give a false sense of security.

We bought a genuine TR8, which had been upgraded to a 4.6L, with a ZF auto. They started with a new crate 4.6L then added steel bottom end, super heads manifolding, cam, computer & went on from there. This was all done at a shop with a great reputation, & the receipt file was touching $40,000, not including the cost of buying the car, a pretty high figure in Oz. It did look & sound beautiful.

On the dyno it had about stock 4.6L power, & I chased a cooling problem for years. After the best part of another $20,000 on getting the engine to run cool, & produce the power it should, a stronger LSD diff, & a strong gearbox & clutch, it is now a great car.

On the other hand I bought a derelict TR7, with no clutch, that had been sitting for a few years. A clutch some electrics fiddling, some tuning & some bushes & a cheap splash of paint, & that car gave great service for 12 years before I decided to restore it properly. It is not as quick as the 8 of course, but it is a really great car, that has been nothing but a joy to own.

If you don't know enough yourself, take someone who does, & buy the car on what it does, not on its receipt file.

Hasbeen

[Cobber]

He said he couldn't tell me about the oil pressure -now from what i recall there is as an oil pressure gauge -otherwise its tricky to know if the engine is OK, of receipts and a proper build sheet [incl photos with the head off etc ] so i know

G'day and welcome,

Nah TR-7s & 8s didn't come with an oil pressure gauge, and given the quality of OEM gauges (of all cars not just TRs) I wouldn't rely on them for anything more than a vague representation of what's going on with the engine anyway!
Better to get some tests done by a competent mechanic using proper calibrated equipment.

[John_C]

Join the TR Drivers Club and ask them to find or recommend you a good car. Usually one of the knowledgeable members will know of a good car up for sale. And don't rule out a 2 litre because that will give you a better chance of finding the best car on the market whether it be 2 litre 8 valve, 16 valve or V8.

[grumpyoldman]

Thanks so much for all of that advice -obviously my memory had failed me wrt gauges on my old TR7 .
Based on the description in the Ad i'm guessing its probably putting out around 170 BHP -would you agree ?
I have got a thing about decent brakes and tyres in terms of safety so that's an easy thing to check out .
The problem is that without putting the car on a ramp its hard for a mechanic to check it out properly and if the car is on SORN then clearly that's not possible -and most sellers will be rather reticent about taking their car to a 3rd party garage .
Also although I have a trusted oily who does my cars , he knows nothing about TR7s in terms of their particular foibles .
I really was hoping you might help to talk me out of this one because as i mentioned there is a definite element of nostalgia going on here for me ,which i fully appreciate is a piece of nonesense . For someone like me who doesnt like tinkering with old cars ,then maybe something more robust like a mk1 Eunos [had one of these before ] might be the way to go in terms of getting that retro charm [and the pop up head lights ] but with more inherent reliability .I am very wary about buying into a another classic which will end up being a money pit like my TVR -after all they do say that intelligence is the ability to learn from experience .

[andyf]

Hi Grumpy,

You won`t find many people on here trying to talk you out of the purchase! They really are great cars but you know that already, and to be fair I find that there are a great many owners who do not have a clue when it comes to the oily bits and barely know what the various warning lights mean let alone what tyres it has or dyno print outs. The only way to tell is to look at it, take your mechanic friend, he may not know about TR7`s but I bet he knows about the V8 engine. The main thing to look for is rust, a good prodding underneath is important.

You may not necessarily be buying more reliability with an MX5 either, I think it is safe to say that like most cars of that era, the TR7 was as a rule a bit rubbish when new, but survivors will probably have been sorted by now whereas the MX5 can still be in the "old car" rather than classic territory so might not be as well looked after.

Go on, have a look at it, let your heart rule your head!

P.S. If it is a pile of rubbish I never wrote this

[Rich K]

Hi Grumpy, my experience with working on a mk.1 MX5 is that they can rust very badly especially in certain places such as the rear of the sills so you may be no better off with one of these body-wise compared to a TR7/8. Being a younger design they are also a bit more complicated in certain respects so not quite as diy friendly when it comes to servicing and fixing things. Hope this helps and that you end up buying a good TR.
Rich.

[prackers]

Hi Grumpy. The car "looks" ok and probably be worth somewhere near the asking price if, and it's a big if, everything checks out ok. I would recommend you take someone along who knows a fair bit about TR7's ie where they rust and how to spot potential problems. Very sound ones tend to be few and far between and if you do find one, quite expensive. A sound TR7 shouldn't be too much of a money pit, but it is a classic at the end of the day..... but buy a bad one and... well you know the rest, especially if you have to pay someone to rectify everything. Expect a full MoT on it with no, or very minor advisories on it.

[spanner]

Are there any Tr7 owners up there who might venture an opinion?

[grumpyoldman]

Thanks again -so i am still umming and arrhing about this as my son last night kindly reminded me of the horror story i had with my TVR . I need to take some brave pills perhaps .
Re MX5 -Actually if you get a fresh Japanese Eunos import they are incredibly rust free because they dont use salt on their roads .Also the special edition mk1 Eunos [unlike the UK mk1 MX5] has loads of nice std Mazda kit like a Torsen LSD , lightended flywheel ,Cabin brace ,Strut brace ,Bilsteins ,BBS alloys , Nardi steering wheel ,PAS ,A/C,speakers in the headrests and a bomb proof engine . However prices for mk1 Eunos have shot up in the past few years since i sold mine -so its not really a cheap classic any more .

[littlepippin]

It is hard to make a decision to travel all the way up there based on these pictures and a quick chat with the seller ? From the pictures alone (which are just about ok quality ) the engine bay, bonnet underside and hinge points, and the door shuts look pretty tidy, and its obvious someone has spent some money on it (hope you can get the hood over those seat backs.....) Big thing has got to be has it got an M.O.T and how long left ? If its a driver and taxed then how bad could it be. Its a £4k purchase not a £10k concours example so you gotta expect some rough bits, but in my very limited recent tr7 ownership experience, parts are readily available, so its the tin worm to consider unless your are a welder.
As others have said, to be sure about it you will have to go up there, get underneath it in an old coat and with a good torch and prod about. This from the bloke who paid £1000 to a dealer, and had mine shipped back on a lorry without leaving the front room.

[FI Spyder]

Re: TR7 versus MX5. People stop me in the parking lots all the time to talk about it. even once when I was backing out of my parking space with Lourdes "Royals" belting out of the radio a couple where walking up the lot and the wife leaned over and said to her husband, "I want a car like that". My brother-in-law has an MX-5. No one pays him any attention. So much so that he has threatened to enter the British car shows as a Lotus. Sure they have their own groups but there's no cachet.

As far as being a money pit, all cars are money pits unless you do the work yourself. As far as being rusty, so were Japanese cars of the time (that's why you don't see any). While my TR7 doesn't have any, my '88 Tercel Wagon does, all sorts of nooks and crannies (I'm doing remedial work on it now).

As far as importing a Japenese car, they tend to be pretty good buys, low mileage, well looked after, RH drive for the Brits, LH drive if they are Mercedes or Porsche for N/A, (at least the ones I have seen).

Rust spots for TR7? The usual spots for cars of that era. Inner fenders (between inner and outer), sills, under floors (especially where trailing arms attach), rear sills and spare wheel well.

[grumpyoldman]

So i have found out that apparently MOT is Feb which isn't so good .
On balance with my sensible hat back on again ,I think I'm just going to pass and maybe wait until spring and see what the wind blows and what takes my fancy .
I would in any event be putting it on a SORN now until Spring as I'm not into winter driving with the hood up and driving a RWD on icy roads isn't the best idea .
The thought of uncovering more and more rot on a classic like this really worries me .
Anyway thank you to you all for the pragamtic advice -have to say this seems to be a very helpful forum .
Kind Regards ,Mr Grumpy

[stevie_a]

Put the reg in here and have a look

https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/


Odometer reading1,530 miles ???????

15 January 2015
Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Front brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
Offside Front brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
Oil leak
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

15 January 2015
Reason(s) for failure
Windscreen washer provides insufficient washer liquid (8.2.3)
Offside Rear position lamp(s) not working (1.1.A.3b)
Offside Rear Stop lamp not working (1.2.1b)
Rear fog lamp not working (1.3.2b)
Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Front brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
Offside Front brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)
Oil leak
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 August 2013
Advisory notice item(s)
Play in steering rack inner joint(s)
slight oil leak from rear differential
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

27 June 2006

Reason(s) for failure
Offside Rear position lamp(s) excessively deteriorated so that it is not visible from a reasonable distance (1.1.A.3d)
Windscreen washer provides insufficient washer liquid (8.2.3)
Nearside Side repeater not working (1.4.A.2c)
Front Exhaust has a major leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2)
Rear Exhaust has a major leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2)
Front Exhaust has part of the system excessively deteriorated (7.1.1a)
Nearside Obligatory mirror missing (8.1.1)
Offside Obligatory mirror missing (8.1.1)

[grumpyoldman]

Ok thanks for the heads up on that