Tank flush - in situ?

Odd · Postby **Odd** » 04 Sep 2010 14:31

OK guys,
anyone have a good idea /past experience regarding how to flush out the Wedge tank?
Without taking it out of the car that is.

Dads TR7V8 have started to clog the fuel filter (washable filter, but still VERY annoying)
with a powdery rust sediment. No flakes, it's tiny particles the size of womens make-up powder.
It strangles the car in less than 80-85 kilometres (~50-55 miles) of driving - and then the filter
needs to be taken apart and cleaned again... Not funny!

Anyone got an idea?
I'm thinking of taking out the level armature/sender and then sticking the power washer
nozzle in there - but maybe there's a better way?

Cheers,
/Odd

windy one · Postby **windy one** » 04 Sep 2010 14:42

Sorry, wish I did. But I would think if I am getting that much rust that the tank my be too far gone to try and clean. Just a guess tho. Im kind of experiencing the same, but not as often. More like every 200 or more miles I need to change the fuel filter. However, Ive only put around 400-500 miles on mine since I got it back running.

Id worry bout using a power washer, especially if removing/repairing/replacing the tank is an unwanted option. How bout two fuel filters, a diposeible one before your cleanable one, and just drive it more and more to see if the rust gets lighter or ends? Just a thought.

Johnny

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 04 Sep 2010 16:39

Odd, I have had moderate success with syphoning.

With a little under 15 litres of petrol in the tank, I drove it onto a permanent ramp set up down the paddock, which gives about 4 Ft headroom, but less would do.

I jacked rear up about a foot on the right side, & 18 inches on the left. The idea was to concentrate the muck in the right front of the tank. I then removed the gauge fitting.

I used a length of 1/2 inch plastic hose, with a couple of feet of copper pipe in the end to control the positioning of the suction, in the lowest corner of the tank. [The front right in this case].

When I syphoned the fuel out, I was amazed at the half pint of very dirty water full of that powered rust that came with it.

I strained the petrol through a cloth, & poured it back into the tank, through the filler & syphoned it out twice more, straining the muck out each time. I then ran it back into the tank through the syphon hose, through the gauge fitting with about 3 Ft head so it acted like a hose, allowing me to wash all the bottom of the tank.

The last siphoning after this was clear.

After this it took about 1500 Km to block a small disposable in line filter, & a couple of thousand Km the second time.

I can not give any longer result, as about then the tank pin holed, from the internal rust, & had to come out for repair.

It did work, & is worth while, but with that much rust the damage is probably reasonably bad. It is only a 3 inch wide strip of the front bottom that has rusted in my tanks, the rest was perfect, & still had a surface coating. It's not too hard to weld a strip in, if necessary.

I now use Morry's upper cylinder lubricant in my 7 & 8, not so much as a lubricant, but because it is preferentially absorbed in water. This makes any water that gets into the tank, [by condensation in our climate] very oily, & unlikely to rust the tank.

Hasbeen

tencate · Postby **tencate** » 04 Sep 2010 16:49

on this note, JUST how big of a PITA is it to remove the tank? I know several of you have done it, what's required? is it something to have someone else do rather than muck around with it yourself? how long of a job is it (a weekend to get it out)? methinks a hoist would be nearly essential or VERY handy?

Odd · Postby **Odd** » 04 Sep 2010 17:12

Thanks Hasbeen,
sounds like I have a nice petrol bath in front of me... [:D]

You wrote:
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I now use Morry's upper cylinder lubricant in my 7 & 8, not so much as a lubricant, but because it is preferentially absorbed in water.
This makes any water that gets into the tank, [by condensation in our climate] very oily, & unlikely to rust the tank. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Over here we use a healthy dose of E85 (that's 85% ethanol and 15% petrol, say 5-10 litres in an almost empty tank)
for getting condensation out of our automobile tanks. The ethanol absorbs water very easily into full suspension.
(Kind of watering down the whisky... [8D] ) And then (say half an hour later) a tankful of petrol is poured on top of the E85.
This dissolves the ethanol/water mix - and it is all then burned through normal engine combustion when you drive the
car over the next day/days (don't leave this mix in any longer!). Refill it to the brim with petrol - And the tank ends up
dry and water free...

A way of keeping a steel tank rust free is to always put a spoon or three of modern ash-free two-stroke oil
into every tankful of petrol. It keeps the walls of the tank oily and fat...

busheytrader · Postby **busheytrader** » 04 Sep 2010 17:18

I'm with the guys before me here.

The tank sounds like it's very close to pin holing if it's clogging a filter in just 50 miles. Pressure washing the bottom may break through the weakest points which on mine were the bottom front corners whilst the bit in between was so thin I made several holes with a blunt screwdriver.

If you want to clean out the tank I'd aim the water away from the bottom and try to flush the rust out of the sender hole by sheer volume. After that fit a disposable filter immediately downstream of the tank, but you may end up replacing or repairing the tank before you have to replace the filter.

I'd guess you might go down the tank repair rather than replacement route since it's a double aperture tank?

Adam

TR7 V8 DHC Jaguar Solent Blue. 9.35cr Range Rover V8, Holley 390cfm, JWR Dual Port, 214 Cam, Lumention, Tubular Manifolds, S/S Single Pipe Exh, 3.08 Rear, 200lb Spax & PolyBushes all round, Anti- Dive, Strut-Top Roller Bearings, Capri Vented Discs & Calipers, Braided Hoses, 4 Speed Rear Cylinders, Uprated Master Cylinder & Servo, AT 14" 5 Spokes or Maestro Turbo 15" Alloys, Cruise Lights, S/S Heater Pipes, Replacement Fuel Tank. No Door Stickers. Mine since July 1986, V8 from 1991

Odd · Postby **Odd** » 04 Sep 2010 20:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> I'd guess you might go down the tank repair rather than replacement route since it's a double aperture tank? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> No, in dads car (UK built rhd TR7V8) there's an ordinary single hole tank. But - I don't want to start extracting the tank just now...
(In my own TR8 efi there's a two hole + swirl pot tank...)

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 05 Sep 2010 00:51

Odd, I've been told not to use the E10 ethanol blend here in Oz, as it absorbs more water from the air, & adds more water to the tank than normal petrol, particularly of a car that spends some time not being used. I used to use half a tank of it about every fourth fill, to try to absorb any water.

It can't be good for power. A mate of mine had a methylated spirits stove in his yacht. He thought his kettle was taking a long time to boil, then it refused to boil at all.

After some checking, he found that after some time the metho had absorbed so much water it was only just burning, & the flame was not hot enough to boil water. New metho fixed the problem.

Tencate, getting the tank out is not too hard. I use lock nuts on the strap studs inside the car, to stop them screwing out, & winding up the straps, & lots of WD40 in the strap nuts before hand.

The tank has to slide off the filler pipe, & out to the left, [from behind], it does not drop out.

I found re-fitting the thing single handed VERY hard. Should be no trouble with a helper who has some savy.

You will definately need new rubber under the straps, & over the tank, so get that before you start.

Hasbeen

Cobber · Postby **Cobber** » 05 Sep 2010 08:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Odd

(Kind of watering down the whisky... [8D] ) <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Now that's just obscene! [:0][:D]

On a more serious note I just tip a bottle of metho in my tank to soak up any condensation. I usually do it just before a long drive after the cars been grazing for a while. 

80'Triumph TR7, , 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
85'Alfa 90, 69'Ford F250.
76' Ford F100

John Clancy · Postby **John Clancy** » 05 Sep 2010 14:41

I syphoned my own tank in situ a few years ago but it didn't do any good despite getting every last drop out and ensuring the tank was completely dry with the help of a mirror that fitted through the sender hole. I also put an in-line glass filter in and when it was all back together felt rather pleased with myself on a job well done as I set off for a test drive...

11 miles later I came to a halt firing on two cylinders.

<center>[url="http://www.triumphtr7.com/documents/sales/codenamebullet.asp"]Buy the story of the Triumph TR7/8 on DVD here[/url]</center>

zekow1 · Postby **zekow1** » 05 Sep 2010 15:50

Hi Guys
I solved the problem by calling a yacht tank cleaner.
On yachts the tank is part of the structure s hence the tank cleaners
They have these portable machines that are connected to eather end of the system and then a pump pulls out and pushes in a formula they use for about 45 minutes .
The tank and the system are cleaned completly .and conditioned.Ofcourse if the tank has a whole or too much rust you will notice and then ......
the cost was $189 U.S
No spills
No molasses
No more gui stuff
and NO work at all.
I did take pics and filmed the process but haven't been able to post it yet.
It works and it is painless.

Nope it's still not running,Maybe next week??

Odd · Postby **Odd** » 05 Sep 2010 19:30

OK, done. Let's hope for the best.

What I did was/is:

01 Pump out all the fuel that could be pumped out (via the washable filter and the normal Facet red top fuel pump), took some hours...

02 Lift the car rear high in the air.

03 Take away the tank armature (level sender, pick up etc.) so the hole is open.

04 Put a garden hose down the filler tube. Let it flow max with hot tap water for an hour or so.

05 Move the hose to the power washer and stick the nozzle into the tank hole
- wash away until the water exiting is clear and holds no visible particles/foul colour when checking the test jar against a white paper.

06 Refit the armature - when water have stopped dripping from the tank.

07 Lower car rear back to ordinary level position again.

08 Pump the residue water out with the aid of the ordinary fuel pick up. When getting only air: refit hose between pipe and tank armature.

09 Pour 20 litres of E85 into the tank.

10 Connect an old electric SU fuel pump between the washable filter and the tank fill - let it pump the E85 around (out via washable filter
and back in via fuel filling hole) for several hours while occasionally checking for crud in the washable filter.

11 After enough hours of pumping the E85 around: pump it all out and into a suitable receptacle (like an E85 burning Ford or SAAB...). [:D]

12 Fill about half a litre/a pint of modern ash-free two-stroke oil plus 5 litres of fresh E85 into the tank.
Let it stand for half an hour, then fill it up to the brim with petrol.

13 Drive it - and hope for the best... That will be tomorrow...

FI Spyder · Postby **FI Spyder** » 06 Sep 2010 19:59

All those quickie solutions are only stop gap measures, the problems will come back. Do it proper. Do the four step process, remove the varnish (Marine Clean or equivalent), remove the rust (Metalready or equivalent, coat the now clean surface with zinc (done in the Metaleady process), coat the surface with POR-15 sealer (or equivalent, use good quality sealer that won't flake off later like my previously applied by rad shop job did). You have to take the tank out and weld in a bung hole to drain the tank so the sealer doesn't pool as the hole(s) are not the low points in the tank. POR-15 is said to seal pin holes as well. Or buy a new tank (if single hole) but it too will rust sooner or later.

When you remove the tank you can:
1. Turn the differential upside down to drain the oil and put fresh in (if your diff isn't leaking and don't need a new gasket)h.
2. Paint the axle, springs and links.
3. Replace the shocks if needed.
4. Replace the springs if needed.
5. Spray waxoil (or other undercoating of your choise on under side of car (above gas tank, axle and the many nooks and crannies.)
6. Replace rubber bushings with poly if needed.
7. Replace rubber brake hose with braided if not all ready done.
8. Paint the drive shaft while disconnected.
9. Put new rubber hoses on the gas line(s).
10, Replace the sender if rusty.
11. Replace the fuel filter (on FI cars).
12. Clean out the inlet pipe on fuel pump (on FI cars).
13. Polish the brake lines so their nice and shiney bright.
14. Replace any broken plastic fuel line holders.
15. Replace the fuel hoses to fuel separator (on N/A type cars).
16. Clean and lubericate the emergencey brake pivot points so it will work on a steep hill.
17. Replace the muffler if needed.
18. Never have to look at the back end again.

I did all the above (except for the if needed ones, they didn't) except for step 17. Guess what? I now need to do step 17.

TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra

Odd · Postby **Odd** » 07 Sep 2010 08:45

Well, it's dads (who turns 80 in January) toy car - not mine.
As long as I can keep it running for him - with various stop gap methods - I'll do just that.

A thorough rebuild (by me) would include fitting a complete (rust free) dhc 'body in white',
including a brand new fuel tank etc... A project that will wait until I've inherited the car.

My two 1980 Wedges...

Odd · Postby **Odd** » 10 Sep 2010 17:40

For those of you curious on how the tank sender/pick-up look when fitted, i.e. inside a tank, I've got a nice picture for you here:
(As you know I've got an unfinished 'ultimate wedge tank' project, hence the photo opportunity...)

As you can see there's a huuuge gap down to the tank bottom from the pick-up - no wonder there's a built-in opportunity
for residual water and sludge to gather down there. Will stay there for years I guess... [:(]
My solution was to alter the pick-up slightly so that the gap is now 5 millimeters as opposed to almost an inch. Sure, now
one will need to keep a sharp eye on that (washable!) first fuel filter since the pick-up will now be more prone to suck
particles out of the tank. But personally I prefer to have the crud where I can see it (and deal with it!) instead of it settling
on the tank bottom...
Cheers,

My two 1980 Wedges...

Anonymous

Tank flush - in situ?

Tank flush - in situ?

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