Running in

[Wayne S]

Morrisons supermarkets own brand 20w50 is THE running in oil, brilliant stuff, stinks too [:D]

<b>Red 4.0 Litre V8 DHC Grinnall (with huuuuuge arches...!)</b>

[FI Spyder]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bobbieslandy</i>

I went for a drive last night and when i parked up there was oil seeping from the waterpump tell-tale. It also looks like it's been seeping from the head gasket to. I guess this explains the lack of oil pressure!
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Weeping water pump seal and head gasket won't affect oil pressure. Not near enough loss relative to oil pump volume. Did you replace water pump seal? May just need breaking in if you did. Did you do the retorquing procedure on the head? Once it start to weep I don't know if you can then go through retorquing to seal it but worth a try.


TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra

[Bobbieslandy]

I've retorqued the head gasket twice now, i'm up to 65lb/f. The first time was just as a matter of course, this time was to cure the oil leak. I haven't driven it yet so not sure if it's done the trick.

Bit of a dumb comment about loosing oil pressure because of the pump, of course, it's splash lubricated.

I overhauled the waterpump using the rimmers kit so had two new O rings for the brass case along with the oil seal (which is the problem) and bearing etc. I'd imagine the Morrisons oil is very similar to the asdas smart price budget oil, it's the first oil i've ever bought which looks like it's already been in somebody's engine!

20 miles i've managed so far!

Rob.

[Beans]

When you retorque the head make sure you first undo the nuts and bolts ¼ turn before you retorque them.


<center>
<font color="blue"><i>1980 TR7 DHC (my first car, now restored and back on the road)
1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)</font id="blue">
<b>[url="http://www.tr7beans.blogspot.com/"]<u><b><font size="2"><font color="red">My Weblog</font id="red"></font id="size2"></b></u>[/url]</b></i></center>

[Gubi]

I'm not sure you've actually got a pressure problem here. I don't know what the pressure specs are on the TR7, but in both Alfas (2.0 I4 and 2.5 V6) normal hot oil pressure at idle is typically ~15PSI at idle and ~50PSI at cruise. And this is running 20W50 which is going to be hella thicker than your 30wt at operating temps.

Admittedly I'm not as familiar with the TR engine, but at least from my non-British car experience what you're describing sounds reasonably normal. I'm happy to be corrected, though.

-----
Tom
'79 TR7
'87 Alfa 75
'91 Alfa Spider

[FI Spyder]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Bobbieslandy</i>

Bit of a dumb comment about loosing oil pressure because of the pump, of course, it's splash lubricated.
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The oil pressure originates at the oil pump which it picks up from the sump and pushes it through the filter (from outside to in) up to main oil gally where it lubs the distributor and rear jackshaft bearing. At the front it is metered by the front jackshaft
flats (so main oil galley has oil pressure for the mains) where it goes to timing chain tensioner and up to head via oil way near first head stud. It goes from first cam bearing cap to rocker shaft and feeds rest of cam bearings and rockers. If the integrity of the head isn't there it can weep oil to the exterior or to the water jacket (oil film in expansion tank) or water to oil (milky oil). The lower oil pressure would be excessive clearances in main bearings (assuming oil pump is good) as the metering would prevent any oil pressure drop after that point (front of jackshaft) if anything in the head had excessive wear. Or the oil is too thin.

TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra

[FI Spyder]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Gubi</i>


Admittedly I'm not as familiar with the TR engine, but at least from my non-British car experience what you're describing sounds reasonably normal. I'm happy to be corrected, though.
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I don't know about the TR7 engine but my 78 Spitfire has an oil gage and it's 80 lbs. pressure when cold and about 45 to 55 when warmed up on it's old engine. Are oil gages (and sensors) pretty accurate usually?


TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra

[Gubi]

Again, I'm no expert yet on Triumphs, but the oil pressure gauges on Alfas are probably the least reliable part of the cars! [:D] They use this damned mushroom-shaped sender that leaks internally over time and reads lower and lower. The warning light senders for low pressure are generally pretty reliable, though, which is the important thing.

If troubleshooting I always tell folks to verify with a handheld gauge. I'm assuming that's what Rob's doing here.

Again, bearing in mind I'm not an expert, if those numbers are accurate your Spit's behavior sounds pretty reasonable to me. When cold the pressure will max out at whatever the oil pump's bypass valve pressure is (~80PSI on Alfas). When warm the rule of thumb is something like 10PSI per 1K revs.



-----
Tom
'79 TR7
'87 Alfa 75
'91 Alfa Spider

[Bobbieslandy]

i'm using a TIM capillary oil pressure gauge, its T'eed off the oil pressure switch and i've run the capillary pipe up through the bulkhead to the dash. There's no kinks. I've been doing a bit more reading up and it seems that hot oil pressure should be 15psi at 1000rpm which is exactly what i'm getting. I was under the impression that it had to be 35psi plus at idle or the world would end. I've just changed the oil and filter, i'm using budget 20/50w now so we'll see what the difference is once the missus moves her car and lets me out.

Cheers!

Rob.

[Shauniedawn]

The trouble with this conversation is that none of us (sorry if I'm wrong) really know how good a job the running oil does.

At the end of the day, you need to build two identical engines and test bed them identically on two differing oil tpyes. Then strip them and measure the results.

Plenty of us have rebuilt engines I guess. We've all done something slightly different, or used a slightly different grade of oil etc. It's likely that we all think we did the right thing too.

Personally, I've used running in oil in the past (once I knew it existed) and also 'normal' oil following engine rebuilds. None of the engines have developed problems, so I'm guessing both methods worked. But you'd need to dyno and strip to check I suppose.

What would I do now? Use running in oil for 5oo miles, change it, then drive the car 'as normal'. Is that right? It is for me!

Oh. Your oil pressure sounds fine on 30 weight to me.

You are more likely to get opinion on this subject than you are fact. I'm not having a go at anyone here btw - just think of being in a virtual pub!



Shaun

[Bobbieslandy]

I've changed the running in oil for cheap 20/50w stuff from asdas, i really felt uneasy with the 30w in there and i've no idea why!

I'm going to keep the 20/50w in there for the next 400 miles or so then change it for my halfords classic stuff. Perhaps on my next engine i'll keep the running in oil in there for the full 500 miles, who knows!

The oil pressure is exactly the same with the 20/50w. i was expecting a huge rise in pressure, how strange!

[jeffremj]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The oil pressure is exactly the same with the 20/50w. I was expecting a huge rise in pressure, how strange!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Not strange, but simples! That is what a pressure relief valve does! If you got a rise in pressure, then that would show that your engine is 'loose'. As 'thin' oil max pressure is the same as 'thick', you have no leaks due to wide tolerences (worn bearings, etc.). This is a good sign [:)]. BTW, are you sure you have a gasket/water pump oil leak? Perhaps you just spilt oil when filling up?

[Bobbieslandy]

there is definately a small "weep" from the waterpump tell tale, the head gasket has stopped weeping since i retorqued it.

Thanks Jeff, I'm glad everything's working as it should be!

[Stag76]

The engineering shop that I use says that the only legitimate use for cheap oil is on fence posts to discourage termites...use good oil for the first 800-1000 klms gentle to moderate driving to run in, then replace the oil and filter. Change the oil every 5000 klms, and filter every 10000 klms. Always use good oil...in Australia we use Penrite HPR50 in Sprint engines, but that may be too heavy in colder climates. Is Penrite available in UK? If so, their website lists the correct oils for different type of engines. One difference noticed on a TR7 8 valve engine when switching from a medium quality oil to Penrite was the immediate disappearance of a cam clatter on startup. If you apply that improvement throughout the engine, you will be cutting down wear by a considerable amount.

[64grandsport]

Hopefully, my new motor starts tomorrow. I have the electric figured out and still have a carb leaking. I plan on adding a quart of LUCAS zink plus in mine, a break in additive for flat tappet race applications. IMAGINE.... someone wanting to ADD lucas. I must be wayyyyyyyy out there. Kinda like buying Lucas wiring harness replacement smoke. LOL

Any thoughts?