Scary brakes

[tr7dan]

Well, had my first tentative drive of my newly refurbished '81 DHC and, as expected, the brakes are slightly scary.

The entire braking system has been overhauled with all new seals etc. and the only difference from completely standard is braided hoses all round in place of the old rubber ones and rear brake cylinders from the 4 speed. Is there any upgrade I can do to the brakes but still retain the original steel wheels ?

Dan

[darrellw]

So what exactly about them was scary?

You could put TR8 brakes on the front, to get a slightly bigger rotor.

Is your booster working correctly?

[FI Spyder]

When you first start driving, the brakes seem more like manual brakes compared to the power brakes of the other cars you have been driving. I had the reverse observation when going from manual brakes all my life to power brakes of my Dad's new '66 Ford Fairlane, way too touchy. As you drive your TR, you do get used to them. I had a number of occasions where I locked up all four wheels on dry pavement, in emergency situations (a car gong through a four way stop, meeting Bambi on a curve, etc.). Which is not to say trying to bring the TR's brakes closer to modern brake pressures is wrong.

[Cobber]

The standard brakes on these things are a bit underwhelming at best, I'm going to 15" wheels and Wilwood brakes,
About the only thing you can do if you want to keep the steelies is go to Green Stuff pads. TR8 brakes are slightly bigger, but still bloody awful.
(crap braking seems a bloody good excuse to bin the steelies to me!)

[busheytrader]

Hi Dan,

I found the standard front brakes on my standard DHC absolute cr4p back in the day. The pads were shared with the 1275GT Mini and the callipers from a porridge mobile (Morris Marina?) within the BL stable. With a little bit of spirited driving at separate times I managed to boil the brake fluid (brake pedal went to the floor) and smoke the brake pads.

I fitted S and S preparations uprated brake kit based on the 2 pot callipers and vented discs as per the 2.8i Ford Capri, along with the same hoses and 4 speed rear cylinders like yourself. They fitted inside std 7 steel wheels with some minor shaving of the callipers and 6mm wheel spacers. They also fitted inside std 7 alloy wheels (as per your photos) without modification.

This transformed the braking ability from rubbish to very good, but the extra capacity of the bigger brakes meant an uncomfortably long pedal travel. I solved that later with an uprated TR8 servo / master cylinder combo when Rimmers had a sale. It’s not the ultimate braking package but it copes admirable with the V8.

I gave the std TR7 brake set up to my my neighbour who used them to uprate the brakes on his Morris Minor estate. Apparently a common mod in the 90’s.

[Rich K]

Hi Dan, ditto my opinion that the standard brake setup is woefully inadequate especially for modern road conditions where even a basic shopping trolley will probably have bigger/more effective brakes than a TR7.

My car has spaced Princess 4 pots with larger diameter Triumphtune vented discs and that setup works pretty well. These sit under 15” MGF wheels with room to spare. I notice that someone must be recasting Princess calipers as they are available new on eBay at reasonable prices.

The gold convertible project that I am currently restoring is being fitted with EBC grooved and dimpled discs with reconditioned standard calipers and green stuff pads. This should provide a small improvement over the factory setup whilst being able to fit under factory alloys.

Cheers, Rich.

[Beans]

... and, as expected, the brakes are slightly scary ...

What is it with the brakes that scares you?

[HDRider]

You should make sure that front and rear brakes are fully engaging. There is a balance valve near the master cylinder that can deteriorate.

I install slotted/dimpled rotors on the front and that helped a lot as well.

Once all was working correctly stopping power was much better.

The previous reply was also correct in that the assist level of this vintage of British car is much less than modern cars. Compare to USA cars it seems almost nonexistent.

Edward Hamer
Petaluma CA

[tr7dan]

What is it with the brakes that scares you?

Well, of course it's the lack of retardation compared with modern brakes that is disconcerting. Yes, I know I will need to adjust my driving to compensate but If I can improve the braking, even just a bit, it will give me a bit more of a fighting chance driving it in todays traffic.

It was, back in the eighties, my daily driver and, to be honest, I don't particularly recall being stressed by the weedy brakes back then - I even managed to avoid rear-ending anything but I do remember experiencing, once or twice, that "I'm not gonna make it" moment.... I did make it though, fortunately.

But..... times have moved on and traffic is not just more abundant but also I think more intense. Everybody seems to be in a hurry and so impatient, why, even on my shakedown drive on a local B road I had an a$$hole van driver right on my tailpipe, obviously irritated by the fact that I was doing 40mph on a 60mph road.

Gotta keep the steelies though as it's my intention to recreate a picture I took shortly after I first got the car, on 5th May 1982 on Ainsdale beach with my then girlfriend. We've been married now for 35 years and I have that picture hung on my office wall as a canvas print so thought it would be kool to go back and take the same pic 40 years later. I want the car to be exactly the same though so it means ditching the alloys and it needs also to go in for a bit of paintwork rectification so I will be going back to black sills and mirrors ( might temporarily remove the ns door mirror for the shoot )

[Cobber]

Well take the pic then bin the wheels!

The trouble with shitty old brakes is when your car was new everything else had brakes equally as shitty as yours, but now everything has better brakes, you tend to have brown trouser moments every time some impatient dickhead cuts in in-front of you and them slams on the brakes because they have no where to go!
It's all very well to leave yourself a nice safe braking space between you and the car in front, but this space is a vacuum that will be filled by 26 impatient dickheads!

And our cars are sportscars and should be driven in a spirited manner, if ya wanna drive like a granny on her way to bingo get a bloody Morris Marina!

[busheytrader]

Well take the pic then bin the wheels!

Sounds like a plan. Take the all important photo with steelies, then look at the brake / wheel combination for something that inspires confidence.

[Cobber]

By Jove I think he’s got it!

Life is short enough as it is without bloody shitty brakes making it shorter!

[Hasbeen]

Well don't know about lousy brakes on the 7. I did a proper job of rebuilding the 7s brakes when I was building it. It took quite some time to eliminate the run out on the new discs, but this is the most important thing you can do to improve your brakes. Of course the drums also have to be set up, but that is easier. I used green stuff pads, & a quality hard rear lining.

Having done the job the 7 will stop as well as it's tyres will let it. The tyres are the limit if you can lock the wheels, & the fronts lock a little before the rears. I occasionally do drive a bit hard, & have had the front pads smoking once, but they have never faded

The 8 has 4 pot front & single pot rear discs. These also balance perfectly with the standard distribution valve. The thing does stop slightly better than the 7, but that is down to 15" against 13" wheels, with wider rubber.

Neither will stop quite as well as the Honda S2000, but as the ABS system does not allow maximum braking to wheel lock, it can not use it's much greater rubber foot print to the maximum, so the difference is not that great.

I'm quite sure the 7s brakes would not be up to racing, & would quickly fade, but driving in Australia, at speeds which allow you to keep your drivers licence, I find them perfectly adequate.

[Beans]

Hiding behind these steel wheels ...



... are these uprated vented brakes (only needed a slim spacer to get enough clearance)

[CamGTS]

Princess 4 pots will fit under 13" wheels if the mounting holes are remachined to inset them