Our steering really isn't that heavy.

[Hasbeen]

I've been having some trouble with my left hand for a while now. Nothing serious, but it can hurt a bit.

This morning I spent a couple of hours on my John Deer ride on mower, lawn tractor in north America, & I've no idea what in the UK. It is only a small 15 horse petrol thing, & quite light.

After about an acre & a half I was steering with my right hand only, as the left was getting sore. Tyres were inflated, & I lubricated it on the weekend, so it is just the weight of the steering.

After lunch I had about a 140 Km drive to pick up a couple of things. It's a lovely day, so I took the 7.

When I got home, I had a shot of pain in that hand as I opened the gate. I realised there had not been a murmur in the hand in 140Km driving the 7.

Who'd have thought that the much maligned armstrong steering on the 7 is actually lighter than a lawn mower. [:D]

I thought I'd share this important discovery with you all. [;)]

Hasbeen

[John Clancy]

My TR7 has the best steering of any car I've ever driven. It's also amongst the lightest for a non-powered setup.

I don't like power steering but when it first started coming in it was much better than it is in cars today which have absolutely no feel for the road at all. Range Rover Evoque is the worst I've ever driven where the steering feels completely dead and rather disconcerting. I've spoken to Land Rover people and they assure me this is normal. How stupid!

<center><b>[url="http://www.triumphdvd.co.uk"]Triumph TR7 and other car documentaries on DVD here[/url]</b></center>

[Cobber]

Over assistance in power steering is built in to modern cars because the average brainless car buyer prefers it, when confronted with steering with feel they get nervous as it's not what they're used to.
The same goes for front wheel drive, they are easily scared by the different (proper) handling characteristics of rear wheel drive that they're actually convinced themselves that FWD is safer! [:0]
It's all dumbing everything down to the lowest common denominator.
<i>With extra emphasis on the words lowest & common</i> [:D]

"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.

[MikeRotherham]

Reading this thread reminds me of a BBC News youtube clip that I first saw a while ago

(Apologies if this has been posted before).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHAvr-G5DHo (starts at 29 seconds)

Its about an elderly lady who fails her 17th driving test.

I wonder if she found the steering heavy?

Regards

Mike.

[Sautie]

I have a 15.5Hp 42 inch cut Murray ride on mower and cut a camp of about 2 acres in 1.5 hrs This involves dodging the terrible Acacia thorn trees, excellent gymkana practice. I have never noticed wrists getting sore. Both my 8 and my Subaru have power steering and again no problem. I recently drove a brand new Subaru Legacy and it frightened me to death.
Why?
Because the whole thing is fly by wire and you have absolutely no feel as to what the steering is doing.
My daughter has fitted roller bearing set up to the top of her 7's front struts and says that it is now as easy as power steering

[Hasbeen]

I recently fitted a set of Kumho tyres to the 7, replacing the Pirellis I'd had on for about 6 years, as none of the top name tyres are available in 13" in this area.

I did a post on this, because I had expected they would be garbage, & was so pleasantly surprised. They handle as well as the admitted aging Pirellis, but give a much better quieter ride, & the steering is remarkably lighter.

My 7 is by far the nicest road car I have ever driven. I would not have kept it so long, [14 years] if it weren't. My S2000 Honda is fun has good poke, & is in my opinion the best of the modern sports cars. However it's steering is like playing with a dead mackerel. For driving pleasure, or for a long drive of many hours, the 7 leaves it for dead.

Hasbeen

[FI Spyder]

Talking about power steering of cars or yor, the Chevy's had the lightest power steering. The heavy barge cars could be tightly turned with one finger twirling the steering wheel. No feed back. Ford was a little better. My '71 AMC Javelin had some feed back which was very helpful on icy highway between Calgary and Edmonton in winter where there were cars strewn off the road for the 180 miles. I prefer the roller bearing steering on the 7, light on highway but heavier in the parking lot a large part I'm sure to the 13" TR8 steering wheel in the Spider. The Integra has some feedback, more than the Tercel which is partly design and partly the bigger tires on the Integra. Driving my sister's newer Mazda 3 both the steering and gas seemed totally disconnected from the car, like playing a video game. My sister didn't know what I was talking about being used to it. It depends on what you are used to but I always liked some feed back going back to when I first learned to drive a tractor in the fields when I was 12.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[claypole1360]

I have loved the direct steering on my Heralds and Spitfires. I also drive the best steering front driver ever made, the Peugeot 205 xs. On the other hand, there is something not right with my TR7 because I have still got the wobble and a vagueness straight ahead too. It didn't stop me sprinting it but I miss the directness of the other cars.
Calvin



1978 TR7V8 FHC
1962 Herald Coupe 1200
1989 Peugeot 205 xs
2003 Peugeot 206 GTI
2009 VW Passat

[busheytrader]

IMHO, it's the electric power steering on moderns that takes the remaining feel out of power steering.

Hydraulic power steering better, but unassisted rack and pinion best IMHO. Rear wheel drive of course but the Pug205 GTI and classic MinI Cooper were good fun.





TR7 V8 DHC Jaguar Solent Blue. 9.35cr Range Rover V8, Holley 390cfm, JWR Dual Port, 214 Cam, Lumention, Tubular Manifolds, S/S Single Pipe Exh, 3.08 Rear, 200lb Spax & PolyBushes all round, Anti- Dive, Strut-Top Roller Bearings, Capri Vented Discs & Calipers, Braided Hoses, 4 Speed Rear Cylinders, Uprated Master Cylinder & Servo, AT 14" 5 Spokes or Maestro Turbo 15" Alloys, Cruise Lights, S/S Heater Pipes, Replacement Fuel Tank. No Door Stickers. Mine since July 1986, V8 from 1991 courtesy of S&S V8 conversion kit (built not bought) and big brake kit.

[Cobber]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by busheytrader</i>

IMHO, it's the electric power steering on moderns that takes the remaining feel out of power steering.

Hydraulic power steering better, but unassisted rack and pinion best IMHO. Rear wheel drive of course but the Pug205 GTI and classic MinI Cooper were good fun.
.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nah! I disagree, there is nothing wrong with the concept of electric power steering, it's the level of over assistance that the manufacturers apply in order to dumb it down for today's average intellectually challenged car buyer, that's the problem.
The good news is with a little electronic wizardry this can be adjusted to a more modest and acceptable level of assistance.......something that cant be done on the old fashioned hydraulic power steering.

"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.

[Hasbeen]

You're on Cobber.

Come here & turn my S2000's steering from a limo dead fish feel to something suitable for the rest of the car.

With steering rather than it's existing remote guidance system, it would be a world beater.

While you're here, you might as well convert the horrible Ford Fiesta's electric monstrosity to something useful too. I think Ford got things mixed up. They put the throttle delay on the steering, & practically disconnected the throttle.

Hasbeen

[Cobber]

The problem is both the level of assistance and at what speed it is applied.
The OEM steering ECU, needs to be replaced with a programmable after market ECU, so as the assistance can only be applied at parking speeds.
The is only one such aftermarket ECU that I'm aware of, and I have one which I intend to try with a spare MGF electric power steering in my TR. I'm started removing the old steering column from my TR last week to figure out how to go about fitting it.
This will however be a time consuming exercise, so who knows when I'll be done.

Another way that you might be able to solve the problem of over assistance would be to switch the power steering ECU off, you would obviously need to intercept the appropriate wiring to the ECU and fit an overide switch to cut power to the ECU. You can easily try out how this feels by removing the fuse to the ECU.
With such an overide switch fitted you could then just switch the power steering on when you need it.

"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.

[seven]

The first car I drove with power steering was a friend of mines 1972 Triumph 2.5PI in 1977 after being accustomed to driving my Triumph Herald. I felt it made control and turning easier.
Roll on a few years and I bought an XJ6 and this was what I thought of as 'strange feeling' you had to really concentrate on not moving the steering wheel too excitedly driving in a straight line otherwise I would zig zag [:D]
Then when I didn't think steering could be any lighter I bought a '72 Buick Estate, oh my goodness not only did the steering turn when you sneezed but the brakes threw you through the windscreen as well [:0]
I have power steering in my Triumph Estate and that is superb, good feeling and road response, not too light and not too heavy, you still need two hands to turn the wheel though, one hand is just not quite enough to turn it, except on a gravel driveway, it feels a lot lighter. Triumph really made great steering cars.....In fact Triumph made the best cars in the world [;)]

Triumph TR7 DHC
Triumph 2.5 Estate
Triumph 2000 Saloon

Mercedes 320SLK
Jaguar X-Type Estate

Kawasaki GPZ

The car is unable to handle my driving capabilities

[Hasbeen]

Cobber I used to tune the suspension & steering of other peoples racing cars back in the day.

Many had a dreadful rack produced by Lynx engineering, which had go-kart directness. It was impossible to drive quickly around fast corners as you only had to blink to turn hard right or left. For high speed cornering you need to be able to adjust the angle of your front road wheels by a degree or so at times, to maintain car balance.

I had quite a few fit much slower racks to their open wheelers, & with no other modification, all bar one reduced their lap times by a couple of seconds at places like Warwick Farm, with 1M 30S lap times.

Changing the weight on the S2000 would be totally useless, as it is so ridiculously direct that it is again go kart like, & actually dangerous at really high speed. I believe this is why so many of these cars die at places like Newberg ring. The steering is unsuitable for really high speed cornering.

I wondered if I was just out of date, so made a point of watching the F1s through the hairpin at Monaco, where the photography allows it. Just as in my day, every single car required full crossed arms, plus a little bit more to get round it.

My Honda would require no more than 20 degrees of steering turn to get around the same corner. These, & most modern cars are now dangerous at really high speeds, as they are totally compromised to suburban right angle cornering. Perhaps it is a good thing that speed limits have become ridiculously low. It is all that is saving so many in these modern cars, with their dreadful steering.

Hasbeen

[FI Spyder]

While my Integra has variable speed sensitive hydraulic assist there is no substitute for direct steering.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT