Removing an air conditioner

[FI Spyder]

I got an off the cuff quote saying it would be about $400 (assuming no surprises) for the conversion from local Auto A/C shop. A number of years ago I got a quote from the Acura stealership of $1,700 for conversion of the Integra (fortunately it's still working fine on the freon).

There's no point to getting the Spider working as it never really gets hot enough to be a problem. We relish the few days/weeks we get over 80F.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[Hasbeen]

I bought all the air conditioning gear from a US import, right down to the last nut & bolt.

I had a local shop recondition everything, fit a modern compressor, new hoses, dryer, & fit the under dash unit, the full job.

Total price, $500 for the gear ex the import, $3,000 for instillation & the rest.

Yes expensive, but worth every penny in our summer.

Hasbeen

[Vino79TR7]

Nick

The AC system can actually remain in the car for engine removal…it’s not easy but it can be done.

Regarding a working AC…When I was restoring my 79TR7 I started to unbolt the AC for the same reason you’re taking your system out, and I was very surprised Freon was in the system still. If after 35 years, Freon is in your system, you might be lucky like me and have a perfectly working system!

In my case, I believe the engine was over heating so the PO must have disconnected the perfectly working AC in hopes to fix the over heating issues. The over heating issues in my car was due to a leaking retard vacuum…once that was fixed the over heating issues were gone…

I installed a fan belt, pulled the switch and to my amazement the AC worked! It didn’t work well…remember I let a lot of Freon out myself. After adding 1 ½ lbs of Freon, the AC was working better than in my modern car with R134A.

Freon is not legal for sale in California automobiles anymore but it is still available for commercial use apparently…its still around you just got to look. With a little luck I was able to find a repairman with some old stock…and for $40 per pound he was willing to recharge my system. Shop around, I got quotes for as high as $80/lbs.

If you have Freon in your system…the system is sealed…nothing can get in or out. Freon cannot go bad over time. It can become contaminated with water but if the system is sealed, no water should have entered the system.

I’d recommend inspecting your compressor and the compressor area closely. Look to see if you can spot any oil leaking from the compressor…check the hood of the car for oil splatter. If you can’t see any oil, this might indicate your compressor is good. I understand you can’t start the car now…but you can engage the compressor clutch by directly connecting the compressor to a battery. Just touch the compressor lead the positive post of the battery momentarily…you should hear a loud, strong clicking sound from the compressor…that’s the clutch engaging. No clicking…means a bad clutch…maybe.

There are 2 York compressors…we have the older versions and the parts to rebuild them are available. Off roaders love York compressors…they use them as air compressor to inflate their tires after off roading. They are widely used on many larger GM cars like Cadillac’s.

Every AC guy I spoke to…who wasn’t selling me something, said the same thing…a modern R134A system can’t compare to a Freon system. Freon systems are 30-40% better (blow colder air) than modern system. I can tell you from personal experience the Freon system in my TR7 makes colder air than my daily driver.

I can run the AC with the top down…me and my passenger can still feel the benefit. As far as engine load, it’s not much. I do switch it off when driving up hills and merging on freeways but otherwise it’s on. I try to turn it on only when I’m driving faster than 45mph. Normally I get 22-24 mpg…with the AC on I get 19-20 mpg.

When I first got the AC working…there was a lot of engine vibration when I switched it on, the vibration was greatly reduced (not completely) when I changed the motor mounts (that were original to the car). It think adding some rubber spacers between the compressor and mounting points would help more as well.

As far as engine cooling…I removed the original OEM fans and fan cowling for my TR7. that alone cooled the engine substantially. The fans were replaced with two 10â€￾ late model Range Rover fans that are much quitter, draw less current and move a lot more air. The fans bolted directly to the front of the condenser, once the old fan cowling was removed (using the existing blots for the condenser/radiator that just happen to be 10â€￾ apart)…

A future mod I’d like to do is replace the original blower fan under the dash with a modern fan that draws less current and pushes more air…a quitter fan would be nice to. It’s on my salvage yard list of things to get.

Not including the fan mods and motor mounts…for $60 dollars (the cost to recharge the system) I have AC in my TR7 that’s better than a modern system with R134A…I realize I was lucky and dodged an expensive bullet but the same could happen to you…

[Vino79TR7]

How to proceed...

Oh…after that long winded reply, I forgot to say…Freon is a valuable commodity…since you can’t take your car to an AC repair shop, let a shop know you have a car with Freon in it. Shops in California are selling recovered Freon for as much as $80/lbs. I’m not sure where you’re located or what shops are charging in your area but I bet they’d be willing to come to you if they’re charging any where close to what California shops charge.

Maybe you can make deal to have them come to you, empty your system, and then have them recharge it when you’re ready, and maybe give you a break on what they charge per pound when the time comes…it can’t hurt to ask.

[sydney.wedgehead]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by FI Spyder</i>

A good point, sometimes I forget most people have neighbours.[:p]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
So why no shed with a dyno?
[:D]

[FI Spyder]

Because I live on the edge of a cliff. That parking space took a whole summer of wheel barrowing down the dirt to back fill the retaining wall blocks, as the dump trucks couldn't make the turn and fit under the deck. There's a shed (tarp covered) there now but no dyno.[B)]



- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[nick]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">In my case, I believe the engine was over heating so the PO must have disconnected the perfectly working AC in hopes to fix the over heating issues. The over heating issues in my car was due to a leaking retard vacuum…once that was fixed the over heating issues were gone…<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


Vino79TR7, Thanks for that detailed post. My '75 FHC also must have an overheating problem as well. The PO had removed the compressor belt and the thermostat. However he did say that the AC was working last time he had the engine running.

With respect to removing the engine with the AC connected, I guess the system is totally independent of the engine so you just have to leave it in place and work around it.

Why would a leaking retard vacuum cause an overheat?

[img][IMG]http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/nickmi/TR7%201975/Yellow.jpg[/img]
nick
'79 TR7 DHC
'76 TR7 FHC

[Alabama-Hokie]

I am about to perform the same conversion to my TR7 and wanted to know if everything was still working ok. I plan to leave the hose that goes to the expansion valve (metal trough the firewall) and replace the rest.

Thanks,

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by HDRider</i>

I converted my TR7 to R134 and a modern Sanden compressor. It works quite well.

I changed out two of the hoses so as to adapt to the correct fittings for the compressor but reused the the long one that feeds the under dash matrix and the short one from the condessor to the dryer. I replaced the dryer as well.

I did need to solder a crack in the condesor and tighten a few fittings as well.

Edward Hamer
Petaluma CA
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[HDRider]

The system still works, I had it on yesterday. I found that the old hoses would eventually let the new R134 out. It took about 3 months to render the system to become inoperable. R134 molicules are smaller than R12 so they pass right through the older style hose walls.

What I discovered is that you can purchase the individual ferrels that are used to crimp hoses onto end fittings. I bought a NOS AC hose from Rimmers that has the long tube end on it ,cut off the old R12 hose and installed modern R134 compliant hose over the winter. I replaced the short hose fromn the condesor to the dryer as well. The 3/8" flare fitting are readily available so I placed new ones on the normal ends of these the two hoses.

The system has been up an running for about a month now with no problems.

Edward Hamer
Petaluma CA

[Alabama-Hokie]

Thanks for the quick response!!
I will go ahead and replace all the hoses then. I was really hoping not to have to get upside down and backward to remove that one hose.
You don't happen to have part number by any chance for the drier you used? Also, did you keep the original overpressure switch?