Composite parts

sp2 boy · Postby **sp2 boy** » 02 Feb 2013 14:23

Is there any interest in composite parts for our cars?

I am specifically thinking of kevlar bonnets, boot lids and arches.

The panels can be either supplied as an outer skin or moulded with the inner frame.

I am thinking of doing the bonnet for my own car anyway, as the items can be made fairly light and rigid when combined with epoxy resin.

I could also make them in carbon but I am not sure that it would be allowed for certain historic race classes.

vitessesteve · Postby **vitessesteve** » 02 Feb 2013 21:10

what weight redution would that produce?

Steve Weblin - AKA vitessesteve
1982 TR7 Sprint DHC

Marko · Postby **Marko** » 03 Feb 2013 08:24

there would be a bigger market for plastic stuff that isnt made anymore,

outside grills on the B pillar (WKC570) , stuff like that.

Smaller parts, visible, not longer available shiny and new.

I dont think you can get bonnets, boot lids and arches made out of composite materials road legal.

sp2 boy · Postby **sp2 boy** » 03 Feb 2013 17:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by vitessesteve

what weight redution would that produce?

Steve Weblin - AKA vitessesteve

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Steve, much of the weight saving depends upon what you are making and if it needs to be as strong or as thick so it is not so easy to answer.

However it is acknowledged that the following can be true;

How much is the weight difference??

Take a one foot square of chrome-plated steel that is 0.062â€ (1/16 of an inch thick), enough so it wonâ€™t flex and rattle due to vibration and wind. How much do you think it weighs?? One pound?... 5 pounds? ...Well... not quite that much... only about 2-1/2 pounds. If it was aluminum, it would weigh nearly a pound.

But if it was a Carbon Composite, it would weigh â€¦â€¦. Less than Â½ a pound!! That is only 1/5th the weight of a steel part; and 30% lighter than one made of aluminum.

I have a sheet of 1mm thick carbon measuring 40x30cm, it weighs 200grammes.

A bonnet skin measures 104x137cm, I guesstimate that a carbon or kevlar skin would way just over 2kgs, and a complete bonnet approx. 2.75kgs.

sp2 boy · Postby **sp2 boy** » 03 Feb 2013 17:33

Marko, If parts made from composites are not road legal, then how did they homologate for road use the F40 back in the late 80's and countless other cars since?

I am sure that the use of carbon composites may be frowned upon in certain historic events for the '7 V8', however little is said about aramid (aka Kevlar) which was extensively used in the group 4 Manta and 6R4.

Further more using glass woven rovings and epoxy resin will give stronger and lighter parts than using chopped strand and polyester resin which most GRP fibreglass parts are made from. The bonus of epoxy resin and using glass woven rovings are that they are still technically GRP, glass reinforced plastic. The bike world has been doing this for years to get around the no carbon composite rule for certain classes.

Marko · Postby **Marko** » 03 Feb 2013 20:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sp2 boy

Marko, If parts made from composites are not road legal, then how did they homologate for road use the F40 back in the late 80's and countless other cars since?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You misunderstood me and I wasnt precise enough.

Home made composite parts without testing and homologation are hard to get road legal.

I know you guys in UK can get a dumpster with wheels to be road legal ,but even that requires some paperwork, calculations, proof that that it can be used safely on the public road. Rest of the Europe has much stricter rules.

Road legal composite cars and parts go through very expensive calculations, process and testing to be road legal.

And they are usualy exempt from usual requirements for mass produced cars, because they are made in very small series. On the other hand new pagani huayra has some trouble getting road legal in USA, because it doesnt have "smart" airbags. And that's one of the prestige car makers in the world....

I think you would need to prove that the part youre making is equal or better in required parameters ( strength, stiffnes, energy absorption).

Check with someone who works on MOT.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sp2 boy

I am sure that the use of carbon composites may be frowned upon in certain historic events for the '7 V8', however little is said about aramid (aka Kevlar) which was extensively used in the group 4 Manta and 6R4.

Further more using glass woven rovings and epoxy resin will give stronger and lighter parts than using chopped strand and polyester resin which most GRP fibreglass parts are made from. The bonus of epoxy resin and using glass woven rovings are that they are still technically GRP, glass reinforced plastic. The bike world has been doing this for years to get around the no carbon composite rule for certain classes.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

For racing what tech inspectors say is the rule...

sp2 boy · Postby **sp2 boy** » 04 Feb 2013 19:06

We use carbon fairings on our road bikes here and in europe, they don't fail road safety tests!

Perhaps we are indeed lucky.

mb4tim · Postby **mb4tim** » 05 Feb 2013 11:46

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by sp2 boy
Further more using glass woven rovings and epoxy resin will give stronger and lighter parts than using chopped strand and polyester resin which most GRP fibreglass parts are made from. The bonus of epoxy resin and using glass woven rovings are that they are still technically GRP, glass reinforced plastic.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I use a combination of marine-grade poly resin, a couple layers of chopped strand mat, and a layer of 1708 stitchmat in most of my parts. They hold up quite well. I don't think my market would be willing to pay the additional cost of using epoxy resin.

-Tim
http://www.morSpeedPerformance.com

sp2 boy · Postby **sp2 boy** » 05 Feb 2013 15:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mb4tim

[quote]Originally posted by sp2 boy
Further more using glass woven rovings and epoxy resin will give stronger and lighter parts than using chopped strand and polyester resin which most GRP fibreglass parts are made from. The bonus of epoxy resin and using glass woven rovings are that they are still technically GRP, glass reinforced plastic.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I use a combination of marine-grade poly resin, a couple layers of chopped strand mat, and a layer of 1708 stitchmat in most of my parts. They hold up quite well. I don't think my market would be willing to pay the additional cost of using epoxy resin.

-Tim

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tim I fully understand, especially with epoxies costing at least three times the amount that you can purchase polyester resin for.

I also make parts from similar products purchased in the UK.

It should be noted that though carbon and kevlar parts can be made using polyester resin they do not have the same strength and rigid properties as those made using quality epoxy resin.

tr8coupe · Postby **tr8coupe** » 16 Apr 2013 17:37

[:D]so how about a full shell in a nice finish carbon fibre how much [:D]
want to drop on a chassis that i got [8D]

BMW Z1 ( sold)
Westfield sport carbon (sold)
Eurosport x1/9 turbo (sold)
TR8 coupe
Ginetta G27
TR7 v8 monster on 245 tyres all round (sold)
TVR VIXEN (sold)
Alfa GTV 3.0 CUP lol

dycecooper · Postby **dycecooper** » 16 Apr 2013 19:47

I don't need one but reading other threads on here I suggest a car on roof for FHC to replace the sunroof to build competition TRs,

Anonymous

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