I must have killed a china-man!

Cobber · Postby **Cobber** » 10 Sep 2012 21:19

Yeah my thoughts are the same as Stag's on the Davies-Craig EWP.
These things are bloody good, a mate of mine has one fitted to his Ford 429 powered 34 Ford roadster, it works a treat.
If they can handle 7 litres of fire breathing V8, they'll more than cope with anything our cars will throw at them.
I've got one that when I get around to it (both time & my injured hand are factors), I'll be fitting it to my car.



"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.
76' Ford F100

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 11 Sep 2012 01:31

Hay Mildred, I've worked them almost down to the bone already.

Stag, Cobber, that makes sense. Wish I'd posted this earlier, but the whole thing is well down the road now, so it's the standard water pump replacement.

I was a bit worried that the problem may be with the jack shaft, & the distributor drive cog may be getting worn badly too. Not the case, but worth knowing. I'm told there was a batch of water pumps with faulty gears, so this might be one of those.

Thinking about it, replacing the pump is the right thing to do. This car is so good, that someone will still be driving it in another 20 years. Don't you think it would be wrong of me to deprive that future owner the experience of pulling the ##@@**#*! water pump out of it for replacement?

Hasbeen

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 06 Dec 2012 10:59

Well, almost 3 months since the last update. This is quite a saga, so if you are going to read it, get a cup of tea or coffee, or a beer perhaps, before you start.

The head could have been patched up, but a good one was found, & sent off for the full treatment. A skim, new seats, guides, valves & cam followers all went in.

With the jack shaft having to come out, [plus radiator to allow this], & finding I damn near needed a crane to get me up off the floor, after the first dozen or so times, I decided to give the job to our Triumph guru.

I called my tilt tray truck mate, & off it went. Nothing much happened for a while, until the head was done. Good machinists are pretty short on the ground these days, & very busy, hence much patience is required.

Then when the head was finally done, & hopes of having a 7 again started to rise, came the phone call, with the dreaded words, "you'd better come & have a look at this".

The car was backed into a workshop, & they removed the bonnet to start taking the radiator & timing cover out to pull the jackshaft. With bright light flooding the engine, the new problem could now be seen. No 1 & 2 pistons had picked up on the bores. It was only a little, which it is why had not been found earlier.

It could have been polished off, & the thing would probably have been fine, but this is the car I love, so that would never do, so out the whole thing came.

They had a batch of 7 cranks ground, polished & nitrided, so I exchanged mine for one of them, to save time, but getting the block bored & decked seemed to take for ever.

The organisation could not be complained about, there wasn't any. It was only after the block was done, that they thought to get the crank balanced with my flywheel & pressure plate, more waiting.

So it starts to go together. Crank, used but mint jack shaft, bearings, new high compression pistons & rings, new water pump, gears in the oil pump, & a spin on oil filter kit, just for luck. I'm starting to get an itchy accelerator foot, BUT! The new crank & cam sprockets were there, but no timing chain. No quality chains around.

I almost camped at the airport, waiting for the chain to fly in, but managed to resist the temptation.

The engine is ready to go in, then the wife of the bloke doing the spanner work is diagnosed with breast cancer. For the next couple of weeks he has more important things than my 7 to think about, as he runs her around the place for heaps of tests.

He gets back to work, & the car goes back together. There is another worry, when they ask me how the radiator is, & should I get a 4 core job on it. This car & radiator have always run too cool if anything, so I say no, but it's a worry. They must have a problem I assume.

The big day arrives, yesterday, come & get it. We've just got to do a retention of the head & it's yours.

It's about 70Km away, & public transport doesn't exist around here, so I grab a taxi. Interestingly at a bit over $100, the cab costs more than the tilt tray that took it up there.

They feed me a bit of talk about not leaving it idling too long, or it might get hot, which worries me a bit, but off I go.

It is running beautifully, good power & torque, at small throttle openings, & very smooth, but it gets up to half on the gauge quickly. I turn the air off.

It's not the perfect day for a car with a new tight engine that is a bit short on cooling, it was 36C at 1.00PM.

After about 15Km, I run into about 5Km of slow traffic where a new set of power lines are being strung. The temperature shoots up to a bit over 5/8 on the gauge. I know this is about 88C at the thermostat.

I stop at a service station, run some water through the core from the engine bay, & buy a 2.5 gallon can which I fill with water to repeat this process as required.

Long story short, I had to stop about every 5 or 8Km, depending on traffic to cool the thing. This ended up at 9 stops. I could have taken it back, but I wanted it home. I'll sort the rest.

I got it home, without overheating it, & stuck it in the shed.

This morning, I checked the oil, [OK], & water, [header tank empty]. Armed with my trusty funnel mounted on a radiator cap, that gives me 15" of head on the cooling system, I got almost 2 litres more coolant into the thing. They must have had an airlock.

It is cooler today, only 34C. I went for a run to a near by township, [25Km] with out the air on. When I got there the infrared temperature gauge said 78 at the thermostat, with the cars gauge reading a bit under half.

On the return trip, with the airconditioning running, I was cooler, the car a bit hotter, but not too much. When I got to my gate it was reading just over half, & the infrared gun said 88C.

The thing felt great, & if you think I'm happy you are sure right.

There is really only my camshaft cam cover, sump & clutch on this engine, everything else is new, or remanufactured. With todays oils it should be good for 150,000 to 200,000Km.

I don't have a price yet, I think they want me at home, sitting down when I get that. After all, they know I've had a few heart attacks. I expect I could have imported a nice TR8 from the US for what this is going to cost. I'm planning on developing amnesia right after they tell me. That way I won't have to lie to the lady will I?

Hasbeen

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 12 Dec 2012 00:43

The frustrations just don't stop, although the difficulty & cost of repair appear to be diminishing.

Still have not got a bill from the workshop. Nice to be trusted, but is it they are worried the bill will give me another heart attack?

Went to go for a drive Saturday. Hit the key, absolutely nothing, not even a click. Turned the lights on, only one came up. Hit the key again. No change in the lights, must be no power to the starter motor. "Can't that workshop do anything right" must be a lead fell off. Have to go, will look tomorrow.

Sunday & Monday showers, heavy overcast, too dark for me to see well in the shed, & too wet outside.

Tuesday bright sunny day, I can get onto the car. Battery down to 3.9V. God another problem. Stick the charger on the thing

Crawl around under the thing. No power to starter, & no problems. Apologies to workshop in my head.

Fuses, relays, wiring all as good as gold, up to the ignition switch. The soldered joint, untouched in the 12 years of my ownership has fallen off the switch. Took some time to find, but was an easy fix. Great, now the light.

The motor is quite hot. Why? The light is slightly up, & jammed by the rubber moulding, which is partly off, with a screw pulled through. This one is down to the painter. Lucky the motor has not burnt out.

Fix the moulding, & the lights work. Great.

Go for a 50Km run, just for a cup of coffee. God I love this car.

Check the battery this morning. Still holding 12.96V, so the headlight motor was the leak.

Start it up, run for a minute, push in the choke, & it runs like a hairy goat. After a little search, I find one jet tube has stuck down when I pushed the choke off. Runs like a dream.

A check shows the car has only done 1200Km in the last 12 months. With the air con fitting, the paint job, the fuel tank, & now the engine, she has been laid up most of it, so I guess I'm going to have a few of these lack of use hassles. Never mind, she's worth it.

Now as long as this old clapped out heart can survive the shock of that bill, when I get it, it's going to be a great summer.

Hasbeen

Beans · Postby **Beans** » 12 Dec 2012 07:08

Good to see that the 7 is up and running again.
Enjoy it over the summer down under [;)] (winter over here ...)

<center>

1980 TR7 DHC (my first car, now restored and back on the road)
1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
[url="http://www.tr7beans.blogspot.com/"]My full Weblog[/url]</center>

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 12 Dec 2012 09:29

Thanks Beans, I'm going to.

Hasbeen

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 06 Jan 2013 02:55

The saga continues.

It is now about a month since I got the car back, & her next trip will be on my mates tilt tray, heading for the engine builders.

It has not been a happy month. The car has been really testing my patience, running nicely one day, overheating the next, then dumping a couple of liters of coolant the next. It would happily do a 30Km each way run one day, then be threatening to over heat after 15Km the next.

I was also getting just the occasional mark down the block to suggest a spoon full or two of water had come from the water pump slot.

Nothing made much sense, & I was getting varying readings with the infer red gauge.

I fitted an overflow reclaim system, & it appeared to be sorted, for a couple of days. I had now done 500Km on the new motor, & thought it was improving, as it freed up.

Not so, in no uncertain manner. I took it for a run to town, & in just 7Km the temperature had spiked to too hot. My inferred gauge said the thermostat housing on the exhaust side read 101C, but on the other side, it read 83C.

The top of the radiator was at 102C, but only 43C towards the bottom. I decided this all meant the thermostat had failed shut.

It took 4 days to get hold of a new correct thermostat, which I fitted in great hope, misplaced hope it turned out.

I tested the new thermostat, it behaved perfectly, & I fitted it. I tested the one I'd taken out, & it also performed perfectly. Sh1t.

With out much hope now, I took the thing for a test run around the block, stopping after 5Km. With the engine ticking over the in car gauge was waving from 1/4 to 1/2 & back every 5 seconds or so.

The inferred gage read 102C on the exhaust side of the thermostat housing, but only 52C on the inlet side, down low beside the gauge sender. The radiator had the same hot at the top, cold at the bottom reading.

I happened to catch my engine builder, & we decided it can only be a problem with the new water pump, not moving water. He expects the car back next week when he reopens.

After 11 years of honest performance, this car is getting a bit too used to riding around on a tilt tray tow truck. I am going to have to give her a severe talking to, & get her back to normal.

Hasbeen

Stag76 · Postby **Stag76** » 06 Jan 2013 04:01

Hi Phil,
Take that water pump out, throw it as far as you can with either hand, and fit a Davies Craig EWP...they've dropped by nearly $200 since I fitted mine. If you get the version that also controls a thermo-fan, you can then dispense with the engine fan if you want to. My thermo-fan only comes on after 10 mins idling in traffic, and turns off after 2-3 minutes. It also runs for 2 minutes after you turn off the engine.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DAVIES-CRAIG ... 2ebcf8a88d

After a couple of months, you'll notice how much easier it is to drive with 2 eyes on the road.

TR7 Convertible
Sprint Motor
MegaSquirt EFI

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 06 Jan 2013 07:05

Hi Bruce, I did see your earlier post, however I have a problem there.

My alternator is only marginal now. It could never run the air con at night, with the drain of the lights. It could definitely not handle a water pump as well.

I asked the local auto electricians, who fitted the aircon, to source a higher output alternator. They said they could not find one, & overhauled the old one. It is better, but still marginal. I could never run a thermo fan, with the air con thermo fan with it, let alone a water pump as well.

What alternator are you running? Do you know of one available in OZ that would do the job. I know Mildred had an upgrade unit she suggested, but I think it is from a US only vehicle.

Right now the price doesn't interest me at all. I want my car back, & running reliably. Any suggestions most welcome.

Hasbeen

Cobber · Postby **Cobber** » 06 Jan 2013 07:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stag76

Hi Phil,
Take that water pump out, throw it as far as you can with either hand, and fit a Davies Craig EWP...they've dropped by nearly $200 since I fitted mine. If you get the version that also controls a thermo-fan, you can then dispense with the engine fan if you want to. My thermo-fan only comes on after 10 mins idling in traffic, and turns off after 2-3 minutes. It also runs for 2 minutes after you turn off the engine.
[size=2][font=Comic Sans MS]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I agree whole heartedly!
You can contact them direct, http://www.daviescraig.com.au/ their technical people are helpful and more than generous with their time.

The whole concept of a mechanical driven water pumps and fans is so hopelessly overdate, relying as the do on rickety junk like thermostats and fan clutches, cant help but compromise their reliability.

Add to that the mechanical water pump is limited by engine speed so in traffic were the is little or no airflow but for the dubious fan the water pump is doing next to bugger all to cool the engine.
Indeed as the pump is hardly circulating the coolant at idle the fan is only blowing on the stuff that is almost stationary in the radiator. The thermosyphon effect doing more for circulation than the pump.

And at high engine speed the mechanical pump starts to cavitate rendering it to being as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike!
With cavitation causing a host of other problems such as corrosion and metal errosion.

And regardless of whether the damned things are needed or not they still turn and consume power.

Another good idea of the modern age is to add to the cooling arsenal of electronically controlled water pump and fan is waterless coolant.
For donkey's years we have been adding a bit of ethylene-glycol to water in the hope that a slightly higher boiling point will keep our engine temp under control.

This waterless coolant stuff has a boiling point of about 190C deg and has may other advantages too.
The stuff I'm looking at for my MGF is Liquid Intelligence 115 http://liquidintelligence115.com.au/
I've met the bloke who runs the show and grilled him on his product.
He convinced this cynical old *******!

High boiling point (190Â°C)

Low freezing point (-56Â°C)

Aluminium & Magnesium Corrosion Protection.

Won't damage copper, solder, brass, mild steel or cast iron.

Recommended for low and no-pressure cooling system.

No Cooling System Pressure.
Your hose's, gaskets etc. wont be under as much pressure
and will probably last longer.
Any minor leaks won't be under pressure so you
would lose coolant at a reduced rate.

No Catalyst for corrosion or erosion.

Stop cylinder liner cavitations and erosion.

Eliminates cooling system scaling.

Stops Electrolysis.

Heat Conductor Particles make the coolant more thermally
efficient.

Absorbs and dissipate heat faster by increased surface area.

Dissipates more heat, using less coolant, in a shorter period of
time.

Before you use it you need to flush the system with their cooling system cleaner.
I can however see that there is one disadvantage to this waterless coolant stuff and that is cost! It's bloody pricey!
But it lasts a lifetime so as long as your system is ok and doesn't blow a hose or something you'll be ok.
If you wanted to be sure it'd last a lifetime, I think you'd need the replace all the hoses, the water pump and pressure check the radiator and heater matrix before using it.

Of course there are those who insist the clock of innovation stopped dead at 1974 and nothing worthwhile has been invented since.
These blokes will always keep doing things the same old way and they will keep on having the same old problems.

"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.
76' Ford F100

Cobber · Postby **Cobber** » 06 Jan 2013 07:19

Oh and on the alternator front you need to find a better auto elec, your bloke is talking outta his bum crack if he say's it can't be done.


"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.
76' Ford F100

Stag76 · Postby **Stag76** » 06 Jan 2013 07:25

Hi Phil,

The EWP + Fan does use a lot of power...max 10 amps for the pump alone. I'm using a Bosch 85 amp alternator from a VN Commodore. I had to swap the serpentine pulley for a V-Belt one (bolt-on from an XD Falcon Ingrams/Bosch alternator), make some brackets to mount it, use a longer belt, and change the bulb in the dash, so it's not really a swap, but there are plenty of them about. If you decide to go down that path, I can make you a set of brackets using mine as a pattern.

TR7 Convertible
Sprint Motor
MegaSquirt EFI

Hasbeen · Postby **Hasbeen** » 09 Jan 2013 06:45

Half the battle is won. The problem is isolated. The water pump impeller is turning almost freely on the shaft. It can be turned with one finger.

Yes I know I'm probably silly, but the impeller is being keyed, & grub screwed to a new shaft.

The radiator is off at the radiator shop. Depending on what they find it will come back with probably a new core. If the existing core is not blocked in any way, it will come back with a 4 core fitted. Should have done that with the engine rebuild really.

A new viscous coupling fan is coming.

A new 75amp alternator has been sourced, as a kit, with all necessary to bolt straight on.

This will allow a thermo fan to be fitted if required.

A bigger thermo fan to be fitted, to the air conditioning if necessary.

A Daviescraig water pump to be fitted if necessary.

I know they say you might as well enjoy it, "because you can't take it with you". It appears this car is making sure I won't have any to even try to take it with me.

Hasbeen

Beans · Postby **Beans** » 09 Jan 2013 10:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Hasbeen

... A Daviescraig water pump to be fitted if necessary ... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
With the things listed above done, that shouldn't be necessary.

<center>

1980 TR7 DHC (my first car, now restored and back on the road)
1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
[url="http://www.tr7beans.blogspot.com/"]My full Weblog[/url]</center>

FI Spyder · Postby **FI Spyder** » 09 Jan 2013 13:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Beans

With the things listed above done, that shouldn't be necessary.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yah, that free spinning rotor will definitely cause some overheating issues.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

Anonymous

I must have killed a china-man!

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