Removing an air conditioner

[nick]

I have to remove the air conditioning components from my '75 TR7 so that I can remove the engine. I can not take it to an AC shop since it does not run. What do I need to be aware of and how do I proceed?

[img][IMG]http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/nickmi/TR7%201975/Yellow.jpg[/img]
nick
'79 TR7 DHC
'76 TR7 FHC

[FI Spyder]

The freon may be under pressure. USA law states it should be recovered for recycling (resold). In Canada it can not be resold. Not practical in your situation. When you crack a hose connection you should wear gloves (will get very cold), it should be in a well ventilated area (outside), you don't want to breathe it in. I believe it is heavier than air so you don't want to be under the car. When I did mine there was just a slight pssst (barely any pressure). Regardless, the amount released will not make any difference to the size of the ozone layer, no penguins will die.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[Cobber]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by FI Spyder</i>

no penguins will die.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">They might if they're under the car! [:D]

Seriously though, whilst in a perfect world the gas should by recovered using government approved ecologically sustainable methods.
The amount of environmentally damaging gas you would be releasing would be insignificant, especially when compared to the amount of environmentally damaging gas emitted from the arse of the average lentil munching, mung bean eating, do-gooding, vegan tree-hugger![:D]

Now I couldn't possibly condone such a environmentally irresponsible practice as venting air-con gas into the atmosphere, but hypothetically speaking [:D] the way I would go about is is:
There will be a couple of Schrader valves (tire valves) probably with screw-on covers over them either mounted near the compressor or somewhere on the air-con hoses. While wearing gloves, safety glasses and using a valve core tool you would loosen (partially unscrew) these valve cores to bleed off the gas. <b>But you wouldn't want to breath any of it in! Nor would you want do it indoors or any other confined space. And obviously away from others, kids and animals.
</b></font id="Comic Sans MS"></font id="size2">



"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.
76' Ford F100

[Hasbeen]

While our damn fool academic & scientific community can't make up their idiot minds about anything, I simply ignore everything they say, & regulations where possible,

In the early 80s on scientific & bureaucratic advice our government required all passenger carrying boats had to fit a Halon fire extinguishing system in all machinery spaces.

Two years later, I had spent over $80,000 installing them in 2 vessels, & was about to spend $30,000 on the next, when suddenly halon was banned. Not only was it not to be used, it was illegal to have it in your possession.

The licenced contractor from the big smoke, who collected the stuff from about 5 operators one day, collected about 3 times what his tank could hold, so we all know where that lot went.

It cost $20,000 to get the gas & instillation out, & then another $40,000 to install CO2, [roll on global warming], extinguishers in their place.

I guess the only good thing for us was, the whole exercise sent a couple of competitors broke, as it nearly did us, so we could make good the losses.

Any "scientist" I had found, for quite some time would have been bait on the end of the shark line.

Hasbeen

[nick]

Can I get the system refilled with something other than freon once I have the car back on the road?

[img][IMG]http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/nickmi/TR7%201975/Yellow.jpg[/img]
nick
'79 TR7 DHC
'76 TR7 FHC

[Cobber]

<font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size="2">Yes there are alternatives to freon, such as HR12 (@50% propane/ 50% butane so pretty well the same as LPG), LPG itself, propane, R290 and of course R134a (the stuff used in modern A/C systems) but I wouldn't know what ones are available in your country.

Now HR12 and plain old LPG are very efficient refrigerant gases, you won't believe how much cold air your aircon can put out using either of these.
Now I can hear people muttering about the safety factor of using a flammable gas as a refrigerant. But your system would only contain a very small amount from between 180 - 240ml or about a cup full.
One thing to remember is that LPG is a fairly safe gas, when compared to say acetylene. The explosive range of LPG is fairly narrow.
Autoignition Temperature
494ºC - 600ºC

Flammable Limits LEL
2.2% (in air v/v)

Flammable Limits UEL 9.6% (in air v/v)

So in a confined space it doesn't take a lot before the mixture is too high to burn. Only 9.6%.

R134a doesn't work very well in systems designed for the old R12 (freon) and isn't always compatible with old systems without going to some expen$e.

All A/C systems will need a refrigerant oil, this is carried in the system by the refrigerant gas as an aerosol mist. So you need to make sure your A/C guy checks this. Whilst your've got the hoses off replace all the sealing rings with proper (green) A/C sealing rings and replace any suspect hoses/pipes. And your receiver/drier will probably need replacing (they can be dried out by sticking them in a low oven for a while)
BTW when working on the A/C system, plug all hoses and nipples to prevent moisture from getting in while it's apart</font id="size2"></font id="Comic Sans MS">



"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

80'Triumph TR7, 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
'98 MG-F, 69'Ford F250.
76' Ford F100

[HDRider]

I converted my TR7 to R134 and a modern Sanden compressor. It works quite well.

I changed out two of the hoses so as to adapt to the correct fittings for the compressor but reused the the long one that feeds the under dash matrix and the short one from the condessor to the dryer. I replaced the dryer as well.

I did need to solder a crack in the condesor and tighten a few fittings as well.

Edward Hamer
Petaluma CA

[trickyx12000]

quote <font color="red">especially when compared to the amount of environmentally damaging gas emitted from the arse of the average lentil munching, mung bean eating, do-gooding, vegan tree-hugger!</font id="red">

how did that bumper sticker go..." a vegie in a v8 is better for the enviroment than a meat eater on a push bike"

[FI Spyder]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nick</i>

Can I get the system refilled with something other than freon once I have the car back on the road?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Freon is more efficient than the replacements available to you. A modern compressor being more efficient can handle them better than an old York. I was told by the local auto A/C company that switching from freon to current refrigerants requires changing oil in compressor to synthetic, new seals and/or hoses. You have the option of staying with recycled freon, we don't. Got to save our polar bears.

- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[nick]

Thank all for the input. I would really like to get that AC system working as part of the restoration.

[img][IMG]http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/nickmi/TR7%201975/Yellow.jpg[/img]
nick
'79 TR7 DHC
'76 TR7 FHC

[TR7Aaron]

If you do bleed off the R12, if caught by the EPA and prosecuted, I believe there is a fine of up to $10,000 per occurrence.
If you have any neighbors that you're not on good terms with and know this law, I would recommend that you bleed off the R12 in your garage, away from prying eyes (and video cameras). Crack the door at the bottom and open all windows - you do want good ventilation.

Aaron
1976 TR7 FHC (an ongoing project)

[FI Spyder]

A good point, sometimes I forget most people have neighbours.[:p]






- - -TR7 Spider - - - 1978 Spitfire- - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[HDRider]

If you want to reuse the old York compressor you will need to replace the front seal with an R134 compatible one and change the oil as well.

You also should change the dryer to a R134 compatible one. The O-Rings in the compressor connections will need to be changed to the modern type also. Most of the rest of the fittings are flare type so they will be OK.

Be sure to check the connections under the dash as both of mine had loosened up over the years. I had a crack in the condenser which needed soldering as well.

Edward Hamer
Petaluma CA

[nick]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by HDRider</i>

If you want to reuse the old York compressor you will need to replace the front seal with an R134 compatible one and change the oil as well.

You also should change the dryer to a R134 compatible one. The O-Rings in the compressor connections will need to be changed to the modern type also. Most of the rest of the fittings are flare type so they will be OK.

Be sure to check the connections under the dash as both of mine had loosened up over the years. I had a crack in the condenser which needed soldering as well.

Edward Hamer
Petaluma CA

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Is all all of the above expensive? Silly question since the answer is what isn't? As I said earlier, I would like to have a working AC but it is not a requirement. I live in a dry climate and even though it gets warm in summer, the humidity is very low.

[img][IMG]http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/tt234/nickmi/TR7%201975/Yellow.jpg[/img]
nick
'79 TR7 DHC
'76 TR7 FHC

[HDRider]

Vintage Air has an E-Bay add for the compressor, dryer, and all the bits to make the hoses for about $270 USD. You would need to by R134 and have someone crimp the ends onto the new hoses.

I reused the aluminum engine mount and also used the original adjustment device by drilling a hole in the new adaptor mounting plate. The original v-belt worked fine on the new compressor as did the high pressure cut off switch.

My only real issue was finding all the leaks in the old system. Fortunatly I have a friend with a very expensive "sniffer" which found all the leaks under the dash in a couple of minutes.

Silver soldering up the cracked condensor was actually pretty easy. You will have to remove the radiator and the condensor but that only took anbout 30 minutes with the car up on jack stands. There are special fluxless solders for AC work but if it is just a small repair you can get by with regular silver solder with silver solder flux. I got some at my local Napa Auto Parts Dealer.

I probably could have solder it in place with the radiator out but I wanted to make sure I had found all the damaged areas. I used an old natural gas flex line from a range and a few odd fittings to connect my air compressor to the condesor so I could ckeck for leaks after I was done soldering.

Of course we we placed the whole system uner 28" of vacuume for about an hour once all the other work was complete to test and remove any water vapor.

Please note that you sould not leave the dryer with an open port for more than a minute here or there or it will suck up so much moisture from the atmosphere that it will take a very long time to dry out.

Edward Hamer
Petaluma CA