No surprise, my 7 is leaking, I think!

[Hasbeen]

No it's not oil, although of course it does leak that, but fuel.

About 9 months ago my 7 went from using petrol at 8L/100Km, [about 30 MPG imperial] to using around 10L/100. This coincided with my son taking the 8 to Sydney, so I thought it was just my led foot, trying to make the 7 go like the 8.

Over a few months this fuel consumption got a little worse, then I had the air conditioning fitted.

My last fill showed I had used 13.5L/100Km, [around 21 MPG]. Surely the air con cant make it use that much fuel. Does anyone get such poor economy from a stockish 7?

A couple of times I thought I got a petrol smell when driving, but no passenger has smelt it, so I may be kidding myself.

I did an oil change last month at our local mechanical workshop, on their hoist, so I could look for any little leaks, but found none, The SUs are in good tune, & not flooding. There is no petrol in the oil, so it can't be a pump diaphragm.

Any suggestions on another way a 7 can loose fuel? This one has me foxed.

Hasbeen 7

[supercass]

<font size="1">[quote]<i>Originally posted by Hasbeen</i>

No it's not oil, although of course it does leak that, but fuel.

About 9 months ago my 7 went from using petrol at 8L/100Km, [about 30 MPG imperial] to using around 10L/100. This coincided with my son taking the 8 to Sydney, so I thought it was just my led foot, trying to make the 7 go like the 8.

Over a few months this fuel consumption got a little worse, then I had the air conditioning fitted.

My last fill showed I had used 13.5L/100Km, [around 21 MPG]. Surely the air con cant make it use that much fuel. Does anyone get such poor economy from a stockish 7?

A couple of times I thought I got a petrol smell when driving, but no passenger has smelt it, so I may be kidding myself.

I did an oil change last month at our local mechanical workshop, on their hoist, so I could look for any little leaks, but found none, The SUs are in good tune, & not flooding. There is no petrol in the oil, so it can't be a pump diaphragm.

Any suggestions on another way a 7 can loose fuel? This one has me foxed.

Hasbeen 7</font id="size1">


I have had my TR7 from new and would be delighted if I got anything approaching an average of 30 mpg. If I recall correctly, off the top of my head, the standard U.K. version gave 30.7 mpg at the constant 56 mph test.(A highly unrealistic and grossly optimistic test in terms of its applicability to everyday motoring) A lot depends on your style of motoring and terrain. I seem to recall from the period if you did a constant 90 mph in a standard TR7 your consumption would drop to about 19 mpg.( I haven't established this myself I hasten to add, apart from its illegality here, I have far too much respect for old metal.) I think 21mpg for mixed driving with the air con on is reasonable. The increase in petrol use when the air con is on varies and depends on the efficency of the system. but I would guess you could typically rack up an extra 10% in fuel useage even with a fairly modern system. So,if your style of driving hasn't suddenly changed it does seem that something could be untoward. Not sure how you've measured your consumption, but could it be thatyour calculation itself is inaccurate? Often brim to brim measurements are variable for one reason or another. Regards

[Hasbeen]

Hi supercrass, Thanks for the answer.

My driving is pretty easy. I live in the middle of nowhere, about 25/30 country driving Km from 4 towns in different direction, & it's all mostly flattish country. 2 are 100Km speed limit, & 2 are a little 100, but mostly 80Km, so ideal for economy.

I have a note book in each car, with mileage & liters added at each fill noted. This gives me 10 years, & 60,000 Km history of fuel usage in the 7.

Previous increases in fuel usage has highlighted a sticking choke cable not fully lifting one main jet, & a deteriorating rear brake hose, making these drag a little. This time it is all confused by the air con instillation. I may have to wait to autumn to see if the economy still bad when not using it.

Hasbeen

[FI Spyder]

My 7 gets 40 mpg max, closer to 36 at legal speeds and somewhat lower when driving in the fast lane. I don't use the A/C, don't have the belt on and just have it there for show/originality as A/C in a British Sports car in Canada is as rare as a block heater in Florida. I would change the rubber fuel lines as any micro cracks could leak fuel without necessarily dripping. Low pressure fuel lines aren't that expensive and if you don't know the age of them should be done any way. I'm a little obsessive about it after I found a spider web spray of fuel spraying onto the intake manifold albeit at 34 lbs pressure (FI) from original fuel line. I changed all under hood fuel lines with the fuel tank lines (not original) the following year so I know they are all new.

My other experience with fuel lines was when I owned a Mini Storage and smelled gasoline, so opened a unit where there was a restored Camaro stored. It was leaking fuel from a new faulty gas line connection with a little mountain of ice on the floor where the evaporating fuel condensed water vapour in the air.

The other thing that comes to mind is your past experiences with rusty gas tanks in your tropical clime, is it possible that a rusty portion would hold in the gas but be porous enough to allow it to evaporate significantly?

A modern A/C system draws no more extra fuel than you get from having the window down at highway speeds due to it's interference of air flow (usually about a couple miles per gallon). Not sure about the old York systems.



- - - - TR7 Spider - - - - - - - - 1978 Spitfire - - - - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - - Yellow TCT

[jclay (RIP 2018)]

If they are putting alcohol in your gas, move your car outside and then check EVERY RUBBER HOSE on your car. My garage smelled of gas for two months before I found the eaten up hoses at the fuel tank!

Then I started smelling gas in my TR8 everytime I drove the car. After two weeks I found a hose behind the engine that was spraying gas on the back of the intake manifold!

I have since heard of two other FI TR8 with the same leak. Another friend's car bunned to the ground when an injector hose sprayed gas onto the exhaust manifold.

Switch to Green hoses as soon as it is available in your area!

Clay

[url="http://web.me.com/jclaythompson/Site/Welcome.html"]My Triumph Site[/url], [url="http://web.me.com/jclaythompson/Technical"]Technical Stuff[/url], [url="https://public.me.com/jclaythompson"]My Public Folder[/url], [url="http://web.me.com/jclaythompson/tr8/Welcome.html"]My TR8 Site[/url]

[DNK]

Green Hoses?

Don
"No More Cars For You"
71 TR6- Perpetual remodel
80 TR7 V8 Kick in the pants

[Jolyon39]

Hasbeen (happy New Year mate!), I have seen the steel fuel line rust in the area that rises up from the rear of the sill and tucks away in a hidden area near the rear chassis rail and fuel tank. This is a short section that is removed by undoing the junction in the pipe just in front of the rear tyre. This is an area that collects dirt and can rust as a result.

Jolyon

[Hasbeen]

Hi Clay. It is possible I have had some alcohol laced petrol, [we have E10, 10% alcohol], but only if I've been ripped off. It is supposed to be from labeled pumps, our local people don't sell it as no one wants it, & I have never bought it knowingly.

I have found the rubber hose we get, labeled as Gates is rubbish today, probably Chinese. However it's only a year since I fitted new stuff, & it is not showing any sign of cracking, when bent tight around a finger.

Jolyon, how was new year under the long white cloud? I'll have to get the thing back on a hoist. I could not smell or see anything under there last time, so I had better take a younger nose with me next time, & perhaps eyes too. I'll have a look at that pipe back there too mate.

Hasbeen

[windy one]

I very reciently exp the same...excessive fuel consumtion.
Turned out to be...the (brass) nipple the fuel-line attaches to on the fuel pump-itself came loose, and was pumping fuel out when running. It would slightly drip when not running. That, and the needle wasnt seating properly on one carb, and was also leaking when the car wasnt running.
With my oil pump-relief leaking oil, I didnt suspect I had any fuel leaks. I cured those two leaks, and I am back up to 24-26mpg around town [:D]

(but as a side note;...) On one of my TR8's, the fuel tank was rusty w/holes on the very top of the tank. The motion of driving was spilling fuel out, and I didnot know untill I found out by accident one day (replacing the rear suspention components)

[jclay (RIP 2018)]

[url="http://www.gates.com/australia/brochure.cfm?brochure=12419&location_id=11312"]Barricade™ Hose – Go Green with Gates[/url]




With changes in the world’s climate come new demands for environmentally friendly products in the automotive industry. We all have a part to play reducing carbon emissions and having a safer and greener environment, and Gates are pleased to announce the NEW Barricade™ Fuel Hose, which offers the first green fuel hose alternative in the automotive aftermarket.


Vehicles built with conventional carburetion can be fitted with standard conventional fuel hose, but now, there is a better GREENER option –Barricade™ Fuel Hose from Gates.

The five layer Greenshieldâ„¢ barrier technology keeps fuel out of the environment while delivering peak fuel efficiency and reducing the fuel running costs of the vehicle.

Gates Barricadeâ„¢ Fuel Hose is suitable for various applications including truck, bus, passenger vehicles, and lawn mowers etc, and is available NOW in 3 popular sizes.

Specifications::
• 5x less permeation than
closest competitor
• 35-50 PSI rating
• Environmentally-friendly
• Permeation rate 1 gr/m2
• Multi-fuel Compatible:
Diesel, Bio-diesel, E-85,
Methanol, Ethanol,
Gasoline, Gasohol

Clay

[url="http://web.me.com/jclaythompson/Site/Welcome.html"]My Triumph Site[/url], [url="http://web.me.com/jclaythompson/Technical"]Technical Stuff[/url], [url="https://public.me.com/jclaythompson"]My Public Folder[/url], [url="http://web.me.com/jclaythompson/tr8/Welcome.html"]My TR8 Site[/url]

[DNK]

Clay about to buy the fuel lines for my ITB TR6.
Was planning on nylon line.
Do you know what the OD is of the different sizes?

Don
"No More Cars For You"
71 TR6- Perpetual remodel
80 TR7 V8 Kick in the pants

[Hasbeen]

Thanks Windy. My engine has a slightly oily patch in the fuel pump area, so possible on mine too, I'll have a look.

I had the tank out for repairs about 9 years ago, & there was no external rust, & apart from the front bottom couple of inches, inside was still covered with a grey surface coating. The car has rarely been out in the wet since, so I doubt a tank leak, but I'll have another look.

I did try to find a petrol smell, when I had it on the hoist, & couldn't. I had only done a gentle 3Km to the shop that time. I had better go for a hoon, with a full tank, then get it up again, for another look.

Hasbeen

[jclay (RIP 2018)]

The web site from the link on my previous post has a link to a data sheet.

Clay

[url="http://web.me.com/jclaythompson/Site/Welcome.html"]My Triumph Site[/url], [url="http://web.me.com/jclaythompson/Technical"]Technical Stuff[/url], [url="https://public.me.com/jclaythompson"]My Public Folder[/url], [url="http://web.me.com/jclaythompson/tr8/Welcome.html"]My TR8 Site[/url]

[Cobber]

<font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">I don't bother with ordinary fuel hose any more, I only use the stuff for EFI, even on carbied cars. I too got sick of the el cheapo chinese rubbish they sell for carbied cars these days. They stick their label on it and charge you top price for the privilege! Your lucky if it lasts out for a year.</font id="Comic Sans MS"></font id="size2">

80'Triumph TR7, , 73'Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'89 Ford Fairlane
85'Alfa 90, 69'Ford F250.
76' Ford F100

[Hasbeen]

Whast is it called Cobber? How & where do you buy it?

Hasbeen