"Fog" lights working...kind of!

rgsSpider · Postby **rgsSpider** » 19 Sep 2011 00:03

I say "Fog" because we always called these "Driving" lights. Fog lights are amber, where driving lights are clear. Reason being, if you turn on more white lights in the fog you're going to get blinded, amber lights will cut through the fog. These are the factory lights with the factory switch.

Anyhoo...it turns out that, as usual i'm finding, it was the switch. It was all gummed up and yucky. Took it apart, cleaned it up, put on some dielectric grease and popped it back in. Working great! At first the switch light was also coming on, but it's not now, i'll work on that. The problem is, there is power to the switch at all times, which means the lights could accidentally get left on easily. I can't imagine that this is how it is supposed to be. Normally, at least here in the US, driving lights only have power when the headlights are on. I actually prefer mine to come on with just the parking lights on, nice to have just the driving and parking lights on sometimes when it's not dark enough for the headlights. Is it possible this switch was rewired at some point? There is no sign of this with just the switch panel pulled out, so I will get the top of the dash off to look further.

My main question is, what is the normal operation for these, ON with parking lights, or ON with headlights? Also, if I attach the power supply to the parking lights, will that put too much strain on that circuit?

Thanks!

1980 TR7 Spider!

http://web.me.com/rg_spb/TR7_Spider/Home.html

FI Spyder · Postby **FI Spyder** » 19 Sep 2011 00:24

Here in Canada (we have different lighting rules than US) the fog lights can be white. On my Integra they are part of the main light assembly. When your lights are on dim and you have your fog lights on (separate switch) you have 4 headlights shining into oncoming traffic which causes a problem as they think you have your hi beams on. They flick their lights at you and when you flick your hi beams to show you don't have them on the fogs go off, the main lights go to hi beam and you pass each other, both drivers blinded.[:0]

Your not supposed to drive with your parking lights on. That's why they call call them parking lights. They're only to be on when your parked (not moving). That being said I too use them when it's not dark enough to have headlights on but still want the rear lights on especially when you're driving into the sun.

- - - - TR7 Spider - - - - - - - - 1978 Spitfire - - - - - - 1976 Spitfire - - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - - Yellow TCT

rgsSpider · Postby **rgsSpider** » 19 Sep 2011 00:35

I think there are some discrepancies in terminology, so I'll clarify a little. We call "parking lights" the ones that come on with the first click of the main light switch. That would be the lights in the front bumper, tail lights, and side marker lights. Second click of the main switch is the headlights. So, the parking lights have to be on with the headlights. As far as the fogs, US specs are the same if they are factory installed. I'm thinking BL didn't go to that kind of trouble, so what IS the normal operation of the factory fogs?

1980 TR7 Spider!

http://web.me.com/rg_spb/TR7_Spider/Home.html

silverseven · Postby **silverseven** » 19 Sep 2011 01:18

To answer the question , yes ...on a TR7 the fog/driving lights are a separate circuit and can be put on with any combo of lighting you want....you could even use them with the high beams (mind you at idle your alt might have trouble keeping up with the electrical demand [;)])

and YES, you do have to be careful when leaving your car, as like the headlamps and parklamps....you can leave them on without any warning and end up with a dead battery.

~ btw Merv, here in Quebec, it's illegal to drive with your fog/driving lights on (even factory equipped) when there's oncoming traffic (i.e. city roads)......I got nailed by the pigs a couple of times with my ex-Escort GT

I think all of the modern cars cancel out the fogs when you switch over to high beams.... and here in Canada some of the cars use the driving lights predominately as DRL'S (Daytime Running Lights)which will cancel out when you switch to headlamps if not activated by their respective switch....

Ron.

DNK · Postby **DNK** » 19 Sep 2011 01:55

My Bonneville had white fogs

Don
"No More Cars For You"
71 TR6- Perpetual remodel
80 TR7 V8 Kick in the pants

rgsSpider · Postby **rgsSpider** » 19 Sep 2011 02:17

Well I'm thinking I might just leave them as they are then. I really don't like messing with the electrics if I don't have to. I will have to get the little switch bulb working though, that just bugs me!

Thanks!

1980 TR7 Spider!

http://web.me.com/rg_spb/TR7_Spider/Home.html

Odd · Postby **Odd** » 19 Sep 2011 10:31

And to add confusion: Here in EUrope DRL's are mandatory (and have been so for decades in some of the states)
and the only sensible means of making a TR7/8 comply (without driving in broad daylight with those hideous pods
in the rised position for others to see) is to use the front fog lights AND the 'parking' lights at all times. This can be
achieved manually with suitable flipping of switches (and risks of forgetting flipping them on - or off) OR
by fitting a purposebuilt black box automating it OR
by fitting a couple of 'ignition on'-fed NC relays that go open with the dipped-headlight-on-signal (since it
is also unlawful in most member states to drive with the dipps AND the front fogs lit at the same time...).

My two 1980 Wedges...

darrellw · Postby **darrellw** » 19 Sep 2011 14:02

Hi Odd,

Do they require you to retrofit DRL on to cars that didn't come with it?

As shipped by the factory, the TR8 let you run the fogs independent of the main lighting. When I was doing some work on my car, I found an extra relay, which was wired up to allow the fogs to operate only when the low beams are on. The consensus was this was a dealer update to comply with US regs (or state regs).

BTW, as I've understood, driving lights are very bright lights, even brighter than the high beams. Fog lights can be white or amber, but are mounted low (especially if white), to illuminate the road (hopefully under the fog).

-Darrell

Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

Odd · Postby **Odd** » 19 Sep 2011 15:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Do they require you to retrofit DRL on to cars that didn't come with it? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> No, they simply go around that - by just mandating that (in case the vehicle wasn't fitted with factory fitted DRL's) you
must drive with the dipped headlights lit at all times (when high beam isn't used). But, if this is inconvenient/impractical
you can (= are allowed as an exception in daylight only to) utilise front fog lights as DRL's. Fog lights used as DRL's must
be either warm white or 'French' yellow, not amber or distinctly bluish white. This is all federal EU regulations and at least
here in Sweden; From model year 1979 the 'parking' and position lights must be lit together with the front DRL's (of what-
ever type is chosen). Model years before 1979 are allowed to run the DRL's alone. All of this in daylight...
Vehicles without electric lighting systems (= the REALLY old ones with gas or kerosene lights) are allowed to run without
its lights lit in daytime conditions...

My two 1980 Wedges...

darrellw · Postby **darrellw** » 19 Sep 2011 16:38

Thanks, Odd.

I've considered wiring my fogs as DRLs (got the idea from Mr. Kelly). Even though they are not required here, it can hurt to have a little car be more visible (especially here where 75% of the vehicles on the road are SUVs or pickups).

-Darrell

Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

DNK · Postby **DNK** » 19 Sep 2011 17:59

I got the idea how to from Mr. Odd

Don
"No More Cars For You"
71 TR6- Perpetual remodel
80 TR7 V8 Kick in the pants

darrellw · Postby **darrellw** » 19 Sep 2011 18:58

Ahh, full circle!

Do either of you have a schematic on how to wire it up?

Darrell Walker
66 TR4A IRS-SC CTC67956L
81 TR8 SATPZ458XBA406206
Vancouver, WA, USA

wedgewa · Postby **wedgewa** » 19 Sep 2011 19:58

I think maybe I can add some additional info. If you have the Triumph optional Bosch lamps - they are indeed fog lamps due to their low mounting and lens/beam configuration. (There are other Bosch lamps that may appear identical but have different glass designs.)
If you have the 3-position fog lamp switch with the amber pilot light as used in later cars (79 to end I think), it really is a 3-function switch. Up is off. Center is supposed to be the front fog lights only but WITHOUT the amber dash light. (There are some variations as to whether the fog lights will work without the low beam headlights - apparently to meet varying state requirements in the US). The lower switch position is for BOTH front and rear fog lights AND the amber dash light. But USA cars did not come with rear fog lights so that's pretty confusing as it isn't in the US owners manuals. And the front fog lamps are supposed to go out when the high beam headlights are on.
So if your wiring is "stock", you should see the amber dash light when the fog switch is down in position 3 and not when it's in the center position 2. And of course not when it's up in the off position. That's what my 1980 has always done with no mods to the wiring since I bought it new. On mine there is a small challenge with keeping the amber lamps seated in the switch properly.
It is possible to rearrange the switch wiring and if that's been done, it becomes more difficult to figure out what's going on.

Beans · Postby **Beans** » 19 Sep 2011 20:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Odd

And to add confusion: Here in EUrope DRL's are mandatory ... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
And to add more confusion, in this part of Europe (including our neighbouring countries) they are not mandatory [:p]

<center>

1980 TR7 DHC (my first car, now restored and back on the road)
1981 TR7 FHC Sprint (better known as 't Kreng)
[url="http://www.tr7beans.blogspot.com/"]My Weblog[/url]</center>

Odd · Postby **Odd** » 19 Sep 2011 21:59

Beans,
as it is it is compulsory for "any car or light pickup/van taken into use inside the European Union from February 2011
to have two DRL's type approved according to ECE-87 and fitted according to section 6.19 of ECE-48"
so nowadays DRL's are compulsory - but our old dinosaur TRs aren't fully affected in all of the member states - yet.
(But who would drive around in daytime with those hideous pods up - for all to see? So fog lights it is...)
And you are right, some of the less pro-active member states have not yet ratified the compulsory use of DRLs...
And I said, the compulsory fitment has "been so for decades in some of the states", namely the ones keen on continously
improving traffic safety etc...

My two 1980 Wedges...

Anonymous

"Fog" lights working...kind of!

"Fog" lights working...kind of!

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