FI Hard Starting/Poor Idle/Won't Run

[jbsjim]

iedkwok - I went to AutoZone today and saw the vacuum unit they sell (MSD) or at least a picture of it. It is a generic replacement piece that if it looks like the picture I think you have some fabrication in front of you to make it attach correctly. Hopefully the movement of the pushrod is correct after all of that. Good Luck!

Zeke - I believe my gas cap (California car) is a complete seal so your setup should work as a test. I'm not sure that it matters much except for emissions. While you are checking your idle and total advance do a quick check of the firing order on the plug wires too just for grins (been there done that). Hang tough!

[IMG]

[zekow1]

It started
It run
It idled
it went around the block several times
it feels Grrrrrreat.
Yes it is running quite well i must say.
i now can enjoy all the other stuff i did to it.
It was solid
NO rattles or noises
responsive on the corners
Brakes work great..

The air conditioning was cold but the idle went down instead of going up. so the idle control unit needs a look.

It did not over heat
No oil drips
No coolent drip
Trans mission sounded like they all do .

I need pipes it sounds cheap.
then top is next.
the sound system.
and then What??????


It's Alive ALL MOST

[FI Spyder]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jbsjim</i>


Zeke - I believe my gas cap (California car) is a complete seal so your setup should work as a test. I'm not sure that it matters much except for emissions.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

My thoughts are the pipeline is from gas tank to fuel separator to charcoal filter(s) to air plenum so if the seal isn't there it is tantamount to an air leak.

So what changed Zeke between the first run and the second successful run?




TR7 Spider - 1978 Spitfire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[zekow1]

1) I cleaned the air flow meter connector and there was a piece that was pushed inside so i took it apart and locked it in place.

2) checked the connector on the ECU and cleaned it also found a connector out of place.

3) changed polarities on the temp switch

4) changed the opositon of the temp sensor from the radiator hose where I had it to the top of the block where it used to be.
and then placed the smith temp sensor on the hose.

5) took the spark plugs out placed new ones.
It started right on the first one.

Plced the timimg gun at 800 rpm 2 BTDC and at 3000 rpm went back to 10 BTDC.

connected the radiator fan on straight and it idle quite good .
so I took it out for a ride . a little fluter but WOW what a difference.
DID I tell you the AIR condition was cold HA HA HA

It's Alive ALL MOST

[jbsjim]

Way to go Zeke! I am so happy for you!!

Does anyone know what the specs are for the total advance? I thought it was more like 2 ATDC at idle and 18 BTDC at 3500 rpms or so?

Jim

[IMG]

[jbsjim]

FI you might be right. I'll have to look at the plumbing a bit more to figure that out.

[IMG]

[zekow1]

I have been lookingto see if I could find the total advance timing and I can't find it.
But 2D ATDC is correct on Idle.
Mine at this moment is 24 BTDC at 3,000rpm's and Idle at TDC.

I took her on the highway for about 5 miles .
First I felt great to feel that it was not going to Die on you.
Second it hardly kept up with the other cars.
It would not go more than 3000RPM's and it it was screaming .
on the gears I could only reach 4th at 5 it would just die on you.

I believe that its miss firing. to start with and I am going to focus on that for know.
* Cables New no cracks .good Ohms

*Plugs new and at 25
*connected correctly in proper order
*Dizzy rebuilt by advance dist.and it looks very good.
* Rotor new and no carbon deposits
*Cap new no cracks and the same no carbon deposits on the inside.
*Electronic unit new XR-700 light showing its working properly
* Coil New with proper Ohms.
What I'm I missing??

Thank you for all the Help .It would not have been possible without This Forum and you'll THXS

[jbsjim]

Zeke,
Try plugging the port on the throttle body that connects a vacuum line to the distributor (I found a simple rubber cap did it just fine), set the idle advance at 10 BTDC and see how the car works at higher rpm. If that doesn't help try it without the extra fuel filter you put in front of the fuel pump.
I'll nose around for a spec on the distributor advance. I tried the "Complete Triumph TR7 1975-81" - no luck.
Don't give up!
Jim

[IMG]

[zekow1]

Never give up
never surrender

It's Running

[jbsjim]

Zeke,
I did some poking around on the internet and found some things that may be relevant. The best article I found was about modifying a US TR7 to a UK spec carbs (SUs). We don't care right now about the carb issue but the author talks about the different specs of US and UK dizzys. To summarize the late US (AC-Delco) dizzy uses mechanical advance only of 18 degrees. In addition we also have a vacuum retard at idle of 12 degrees. If we set our idle advance at 2 degrees ATDC (10 degrees BTDC without the retard unit) we should see a maximum advance of (-2+12+18) 28 degrees at 6000 rpms. At 3000 rpm it will be a few degrees lower than this.

Since Jeff (Advanced Distributors) rebuilt your dizzy I would expect the mechanical advance to be fine but I know on mine he could not rebuild the vacuum unit and he said so upfront. If your vacuum unit is not working he said to set your advance at idle to 10-14 degrees BTDC. I can't pass smog that way but I think you can.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[IMG]

[jbsjim]

Zeke,
After rereading your one post it sounds like your advance is about right (24 degrees at 3000 rpm). Sorry for the long post.
Jim

[IMG]

[FI Spyder]

I too suspect a fuel flow problem. When my pump intake was clogged with tank sealer particles It would run fine but couldn't accelerate past 2,500 rpm. regardless of gear I was in. If I did it would bog down without power until I let it rest for ten minutes. The pump would work harder trying to pump the gas until it would overheat requiring the rest. The pump ticking was quite loud, you could hear it in the interior. I could drive it all day at under 2,500rpm, in fact drove home from Portland two year's ago. Cleaning out the tank and pump inlet restored the pump and it wasn't damaged.

I would try it without the extra regular filter. Did you replace the FI filter? If you didn't it might be clogged. They're $20 but if you haven't replaced it it's worth a try.

I know you were advised to put the clear filter to keep an eye on things but were they familiar with the Bosch system with it's fuel recirculation for pump cooling. I don't know if modern systems use the same mechanism or have the same volume.

TR7 Spider - 1978 Spitfire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

[zekow1]

Its good to know that i am in the right tract.
I went in today for a little while .
*checked on the sparkplug wires ,plugs and since I was there the PSI on each cylinder.
*Cables where are .9 omhs on the short ones and 1 omhs on the long ones.
* Plugs where half light carbon and half white. Tops where perfect.
* the PSI was 100 on first
100 on second
110 on third
110 on 4th
did not have time to take a ride.
Timing sounds best as it is .
I will take that extra filter out .
I do have the throttle tip closed .
Iwill keep trying.
Thank guys the longer the post the better

It's Running

[iedkwok]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jbsjim</i>

iedkwok,
That's actually amazing that you found one. I may mosey over there myself to see what they can find for me. Do you mind if I ask how much it set you back?
Jim

[IMG]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sorry, I have to take that back, the unit I got was for vacuum advance, not vacuum retard.It is the opposite direction. I found a place here in Vista California call Brithismasters.net that I will visit and see if they have the Vacuum retard I need.

[jbsjim]

iedkwok,
British Masters sells stuff on ebay a lot. They seem pretty expensive. BTW I saw a used dizzy on ebay this morning (Monday) that I believe is the correct one for your car for about $60. I would think you would want to get confirmation that the vacuum unit is working before you spring for it.
Jim