Sealing door frame/speaker rear wave

yorkens · Postby **yorkens** » 15 Jan 2011 19:31

After trial fitting my renovated door cards (including slightly larger 2 way speakers), I've suddenly realized how poorly supported the door speakers are, merely to a floppy piece of hardboard supported to the frame with a few plastic pop rivets. I canÂ´t see how you can get a really decent sound with this set up, certainly no decent home speakers front panels are mounted in such a pathetic way. So iÂ´ve decided to do an upgrade that consists of reinforcing the frame speaker hole and then screw the speaker right through to the door frame and also seal the door frame apertures, yes, difficult i`ve heard, but not impossible, i dare to say. I've been searching in past topics about speakers but the main improvement i found is about door dampening with pads, etc. Has anyone done this before? I would like to hear/see from other TR7'ers . Meanwhile hereÂ´s my first attempt for improvement
[img][IMG]http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k438/yorkens/L1020622.jpg[/img][/img]
MDF panel ready to be glued inside the door

Once glued it has increased the hole stiffness dramatically

stevie_a · Postby **stevie_a** » 15 Jan 2011 20:21

looking good...

I had to do similar to mine then added the Dynamat it make a big difference with a good set of speakers

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If it's not broke don't fix it.

http://www.smallbiztranscripts.co.uk

Marsu · Postby **Marsu** » 16 Jan 2011 04:28

The back plate reinforcement looks good. One question is what material have you used? I have tried MDF in there before and it eventually expands when the coating breaks down.

In future I plan to use the material they make plastic kitchen cutting boards from. At present I have just drilled through the inner door skin and attached spire nuts for the speaker fixing screws to locate in - it is better than just using the door cards.

Personally, I think using Dynamat (or equivalent) to seal the aperatures is overkill. This material is a damper and designed to be applied to a metal underskin to stiffen it and restrict natural frequency amplitude.

For the inner door skin aperatures using some stiff plastic stretched over the hole with some sound absorber (but no-moisture absorber) in the cavity behind will give good results.

This site is worth a read: http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com

stevie_a · Postby **stevie_a** » 16 Jan 2011 09:39

My car was done by a professional audio company and would have cost a lot of money

If I had to pay for it ( it was done as they owed me many favors...[;)] )

they used MDF coated in pva glue then when dry

they coated it in some black liquid

( not to sure what it was but it was some kind of water displacement pait or so they said)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it's not broke don't fix it.

http://www.smallbiztranscripts.co.uk

supercass · Postby **supercass** » 16 Jan 2011 13:12

[quote]Originally posted by stevie_a

looking good...

I had to do similar to mine then added the Dynamat it make a big difference with a good set of speakers

Have heard that flashband does a similar job to Dynamat and is a fraction of the price. (available from Screwfix) supercass

supercass · Postby **supercass** » 16 Jan 2011 14:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by yorkens

After trial fitting my renovated door cards (including slightly larger 2 way speakers), I've suddenly realized how poorly supported the door speakers are, merely to a floppy piece of hardboard supported to the frame with a few plastic pop rivets. I canÂ´t see how you can get a really decent sound with this set up, certainly no decent home speakers front panels are mounted in such a pathetic way. So iÂ´ve decided to do an upgrade that consists of reinforcing the frame speaker hole and then screw the speaker right through to the door frame and also seal the door frame apertures, yes, difficult i`ve heard, but not impossible, i dare to say. I've been searching in past topics about speakers but the main improvement i found is about door dampening with pads, etc. Has anyone done this before? I would like to hear/see from other TR7'ers . Meanwhile hereÂ´s my first attempt for improvement
[img][IMG]http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k438/yorkens/L1020622.jpg[/img][/img]
MDF panel ready to be glued inside the door

Once glued it has increased the hole stiffness dramatically
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Something I've often thought about is utilizing the aperture at the base of the front wings for speakers. If you take off the hardboard and vinyl trims at the side of the footwells, adjacent to the doors there is a square metal plate riveted in. I had thought about removing this, cutting an appropriately sized hole, mounting speakers, reinstalling the panels complete with speakers using screws, reinstall trim after adaptation. I think you could probably install fairly large speakers here quite discreetly. These could be used as well as the door speakers which could then be smaller I suppose the speakers would need to be well protected from wet, but then that is also the case with door mounted speakers.Has anyone done this. Incidental;ly does anyone know why there are such large blanking plates in this area? supercass

Marsu · Postby **Marsu** » 16 Jan 2011 14:28

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by supercass

... Incidental;ly does anyone know why there are such large blanking plates in this area?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
In cars with no air cond there are vents fitted at this location.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-TR7-TR8-NOS-FOOT-VENT-PANEL-/260719503801?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb417e9b9

Workshop Help · Postby **Workshop Help** » 16 Jan 2011 14:40

Kind sirs, I applaud your igenuity, efforts, and money spent. But, have your considered the basic fault with our door mounted speakers? Think about this, are your ears located in your knees? If not, then why blow sound into them? Would not blowing sound into your head mounted ears be somewhat better?

Here's what I did many years ago.

Here is the speaker.

By having the speaker easily installed in the factory provided space in the dash, your favorite music is blared into your knee AND into the ears on your head. This is a concept known in select circles as 'Stereophonic Sound', in that the voices in your head are drowned out by tunes from the radio bombarding your senses from several angles.

Please use the SEARCH function to source the article I wrote on this topic some time ago.

Mildred Hargis

Underdog · Postby **Underdog** » 16 Jan 2011 14:55

Can't hear much in mine over the exhaust.[}:)]

Jim Underwood
72 MGB BRG
80 TR8 Persian Aqua
If women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

supercass · Postby **supercass** » 16 Jan 2011 16:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Marsu

[quote]Originally posted by supercass

... Incidental;ly does anyone know why there are such large blanking plates in this area?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
In cars with no air cond there are vents fitted at this location.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-TR7-TR8-NOS-FOOT-VENT-PANEL-/260719503801?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb417e9b9
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thanks for the info Marsu, now I know! I've never set eyes on one of those vents before. U.K. cars never had air conditioning and didn't have these vents fitted as far as I'm aware. Mine certainly hasn't. Presumably not required with the cooler climate. I had heard that vents were fitted to the works rally cars here though. I don't believe I have ever seen this part listed in the UK, as the advert says it must be rare. supercass

Bobbieslandy · Postby **Bobbieslandy** » 16 Jan 2011 16:45

The trouble with that Mildred is that all our radio's are stereo these days[:D]

Seriously though, having speakers in the lower part of the doors is fine for most people, i've never had a problem. What can really make a difference is if you fit some high frequency tweeters on the dash, it's the higher frequencies which have trouble reaching your ears.

My speakers will be going on the parcel shelf along with 2 decent ones in the door cards and should sound pretty good. I have the same problem Underdog, but only when driving at 9/10ths. which is all the time[:D]

Rob.

FI Spyder · Postby **FI Spyder** » 16 Jan 2011 16:51

I kind of like my tinny sounding speakers. It encourages me to keep my radio off so I can hear the sound of the exhaust and the world around me as I'm driving with the top down.[:p]

What's behind the vent plate? It starts at a high pressure area at the front of the car where a tunnel between the inner and out fender goes back the the plate area which would aid in the air flow into the interior on cars with the vent there. There are holes in the bottom of the front sill to vent the air down and out for a constant circulation of air through this area to help keep this area dry. There is also (as on my Spider but probably lost on many cars) four triangular plastic vents that create a low pressure area to aid the circulation of air through this area. If you where to put speakers in this area they would have to be sealed from the weather as if they were mounted by your driving lights.

TR7 Spider - 1978 Spitfire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra - Yellow TCT

yorkens · Postby **yorkens** » 16 Jan 2011 18:46

Something I've often thought about is utilizing the aperture at the base of the front wings for speakers. If you take off the hardboard and vinyl trims at the side of the footwells, adjacent to the doors there is a square metal plate riveted in. I had thought about removing this, cutting an appropriately sized hole, mounting speakers, reinstalling the panels complete with speakers using screws, reinstall trim after adaptation. I think you could probably install fairly large speakers here quite discreetly. These could be used as well as the door speakers which could then be smaller I suppose the speakers would need to be well protected from wet, but then that is also the case with door mounted speakers.Has anyone done this. Incidental;ly does anyone know why there are such large blanking plates in this area? supercass
____________________________________________________________________________________
I was also considering this area, but unfortunately itÂ´s even further away from the ears than the door speakers, but if i was installing a super hi-fi system i would fit a woofer in this area, a mid range speaker in each door and the tweeters above the dashboard side vents. I've always been interested in fitting those original and elusive vent doors if i could find them a reasonable price. Also tempted to make my own but at present iÂ´ve got enough brackets and plates to make,and also, after all the effort... does anybody know it they vent adequately?

[img][IMG]http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k438/yorkens/L1020372.jpg[/img][/img]

Marsu · Postby **Marsu** » 16 Jan 2011 18:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by yorkens

... does anybody know it they vent adequately?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes they do - it's very nice on a warm summer day to feel fresh air over feet and lower legs. A must though to have closed in winter!

yorkens · Postby **yorkens** » 16 Jan 2011 19:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Marsu

[quote]Originally posted by yorkens

... does anybody know it they vent adequately?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes they do - it's very nice on a warm summer day to feel fresh air over feet and lower legs. A must though to have closed in winter!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
ThatÂ´s good, seems iÂ´ll have to work out a hinged plate with a latch for variable apertures... more work then, but i enjoy the challenge!

Anonymous

Sealing door frame/speaker rear wave

Sealing door frame/speaker rear wave

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