Anonymous

Do these things work??

The all purpose forum for any TR7/8 related topics.
zekow1
Swagester
Posts: 519
Joined: 08 Apr 2008 01:36
Location: USA
Contact:

Do these things work??

Postby zekow1 » 14 Nov 2010 15:26

ALUMINUM OIL CATCH TANK CAN UNIVERSAL 18 FL OZ
I have seen these things advertized all over the place.
WHt exactly do they do???
DO they help ??
Or are they just for looks?

Nope!! it's still not running ,Maybe next week???
ImageImageImageImageImage

elsberry
Rust Hunter
Posts: 141
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 02:26
Location: USA
Contact:

Postby elsberry » 14 Nov 2010 16:04

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by zekow1</i>

ALUMINUM OIL CATCH TANK CAN UNIVERSAL 18 FL OZ
I have seen these things advertized all over the place.
WHt exactly do they do???
DO they help ??
Or are they just for looks?

Nope!! it's still not running ,Maybe next week???
ImageImageImageImageImage
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

For cars with extremely high blowby or crankcase pressure yes. Save your money unless your car is turbo charged or supercharged, at least in my opinion.

Dave Elsberry
1980 US spec DHC
1974 Jaguar SIII XKE
1994 Jaguar XJ12
I need more garage space!


[url="https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B26QZc97k0noYTAxMzUxZjgtMzZkZS00MWEwLWEyZmYtOWRkMzliNWZhMDA3&hl=en"]My Triumph Document Repository[/url]

PeterTR7V8
TRemendous
Posts: 2914
Joined: 10 Jun 2008 02:22
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Postby PeterTR7V8 » 14 Nov 2010 17:56

Image

Most engines need to breathe & have a rocker cover vent that is fed into the air intake to be reburnt. If you drive the car for extended periods in the higher rev range the motor will mist up the oil & there will be a lot of moisture in that air that exits the rocker vent. Rather than that overly oily air go back into the combustion chambers you plumb the rocker vents to an external tank as seen above. When worked hard Rover V8s like to breathe a lot more than most motors & also tend to accumulate oil on top of the cylinder head unless you take measures to reduce the volume of oil getting to the heads. Without tanks to catch the fluid there's a good chance a stream of oil will start to flow into the carbs & foul up the cylinders. To stop this you use large hoses for the vents but even so my motor will fill the tank after about 40 minutes of racing. It has a tap on the bottom to drain it.

Image

The map: http://tinyurl.com/wedgemap . The blog: http://www.forum.triumphtr7.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8548

elsberry
Rust Hunter
Posts: 141
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 02:26
Location: USA
Contact:

Postby elsberry » 14 Nov 2010 19:01

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by PeterTR7V8</i>

Image

Most engines need to breathe & have a rocker cover vent that is fed into the air intake to be reburnt. If you drive the car for extended periods in the higher rev range the motor will mist up the oil & there will be a lot of moisture in that air that exits the rocker vent. Rather than that overly oily air go back into the combustion chambers you plumb the rocker vents to an external tank as seen above. When worked hard Rover V8s like to breathe a lot more than most motors & also tend to accumulate oil on top of the cylinder head unless you take measures to reduce the volume of oil getting to the heads. Without tanks to catch the fluid there's a good chance a stream of oil will start to flow into the carbs & foul up the cylinders. To stop this you use large hoses for the vents but even so my motor will fill the tank after about 40 minutes of racing. It has a tap on the bottom to drain it.

Image

The map: http://tinyurl.com/wedgemap . The blog: http://www.forum.triumphtr7.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8548
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Peter,

Good points. I would think it would be very useful in a Rover V8 if you were racing it.



Dave Elsberry
1980 US spec DHC
1974 Jaguar SIII XKE
1994 Jaguar XJ12
I need more garage space!


[url="https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B26QZc97k0noYTAxMzUxZjgtMzZkZS00MWEwLWEyZmYtOWRkMzliNWZhMDA3&hl=en"]My Triumph Document Repository[/url]

PeterTR7V8
TRemendous
Posts: 2914
Joined: 10 Jun 2008 02:22
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Postby PeterTR7V8 » 14 Nov 2010 19:15

For racing it is a must but seeing what gets deposited into the tank I would put it on a Rover V8 car even if it wasn't raced for the sake of the induction system.

Image

The map: http://tinyurl.com/wedgemap . The blog: http://www.forum.triumphtr7.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8548

elsberry
Rust Hunter
Posts: 141
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 02:26
Location: USA
Contact:

Postby elsberry » 14 Nov 2010 19:41

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by PeterTR7V8</i>

For racing it is a must but seeing what gets deposited into the tank I would put it on a Rover V8 car even if it wasn't raced for the sake of the induction system.

Image

The map: http://tinyurl.com/wedgemap . The blog: http://www.forum.triumphtr7.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8548
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well, yes. My fingers and my brain are not always in sync. what I meant was in a Rover V8 based on my experience with them and the old Buick originals, or especially if you were racing it, or any other engine you were racing heavily for that matter. Sometimes the brain and fingers get in fights.. It's very entertaining to watch [:D]

Dave Elsberry
1980 US spec DHC
1974 Jaguar SIII XKE
1994 Jaguar XJ12
I need more garage space!


[url="https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B26QZc97k0noYTAxMzUxZjgtMzZkZS00MWEwLWEyZmYtOWRkMzliNWZhMDA3&hl=en"]My Triumph Document Repository[/url]

claypole1360
Swagester
Posts: 833
Joined: 18 Jul 2010 16:02
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Postby claypole1360 » 14 Nov 2010 20:21

I have got one on my Bond Equipe sprint/hillclimb car, it is a third full with grotty fluid, I do use it on the road occasionally and I wouldn't be without it.
That said, it is a large thick plastic bottle rather than a one of them there plush aluminium tanks, racing on a budget you see.
Cheers Calvin

Hasbeen
TRemendous
Posts: 6474
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 12:32
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Hasbeen » 14 Nov 2010 23:40

These catcher cans started in motor sport, in Oz in the mid 60s to reduce the oil on the track. In those days some motor racing people worked almost on the total loss principle, & their cars would drop a gallon or more from the open engine breather, in a 20 mile race.

The Brabham Repco F1 engine was built on a Rover V8 block. If you were very rich you could get them specially cast for you, in magnesium alloy. Some of them did breath a bit, particularly if the bores had become a bit wavy.

We found they did not have to breath heavily. We used really smooth almost polished bores, [no cross hatch from the hone] & lapped the rings, [on their race pistons] to the bores with brasso, [liquid metal polish] before assembly. We did the same with the valves.

Main advantages were valves did not wear or settle in, & no readjustment was required. The things did not breath heavily. After over 1,000 miles of racing, the catcher can on the first engine I rebuilt had put less than a quarter of a pint in the catcher.

I also believe the smooth bore reduced friction, & the good pressure seal increased power. If nothing else it meant that when I was behind the wheel I had a feeling that my engine was probably better built than the other blokes.

Reducing Rover V8 blow by is childes play compared to trying to stop the rear main of a Triumph TR3As engine leaking.

Hasbeen

PeterTR7V8
TRemendous
Posts: 2914
Joined: 10 Jun 2008 02:22
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Postby PeterTR7V8 » 15 Nov 2010 01:26

What you say makes sense to me but the cross hatching is meant to increase cylinder lubrication isn't it. Would a smooth bore motor have more bore wear over time?

Image

The map: http://tinyurl.com/wedgemap . The blog: http://www.forum.triumphtr7.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8548

Hasbeen
TRemendous
Posts: 6474
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 12:32
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Hasbeen » 15 Nov 2010 02:08

It probably depends on what you mean by over time Peter. Also my engines always ran on STP, which does not wipe off.

I used this technique in my Morgan +4, [TR3A engine]. I used the 1991cc engine for 3,000 miles of racing, & 12,000 miles road usage.
You could see a ring lip in the bore, but could not feel it, & could measure no wear in bores or pistons.

Rebuilt the thing with new liners & custom pistons to 2.24L, & did another 2,000 miles racing & 8,000 road, & could not measure any wear in those bores either.

Next owner crack tested [dye test at home first] the thing during a return to 1991cc about 20,000 miles later, & found the crank looked like a barbers poll, small cracks every where, but still no measurable wear.

My Ford Cosworth engine in the F11 Brabham did a little over 2,000 miles, [estimated no speedo], on a new block & had no wear at the end, although it had gone through 6 sets of Hepolite forged pistons, which used to crack between the skirt & the web.

The pistons were checked or replaced every 150 miles or so, & the rings lapped each time, so lapping had very little wear effect on the bores.

I have usually found any 20,000 miles engine has reasonably polished bores, with little sign of honing marks by that low mileage, so I don't think it matters much except while bedding in a new rebuild.

I really have no idea if my STP usage does anything today, with the good oils we have, but I'm not game to stop the habit of over 40 years experience. May be it helps.

Hasbeen

elsberry
Rust Hunter
Posts: 141
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 02:26
Location: USA
Contact:

Postby elsberry » 15 Nov 2010 02:14

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Hasbeen</i>

It probably depends on what you mean by over time Peter. Also my engines always ran on STP, which does not wipe off.


Hasbeen
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What are you referring to with the STP? Their oil treatment?

Dave Elsberry
1980 US spec DHC
1974 Jaguar SIII XKE
1994 Jaguar XJ12
I need more garage space!


[url="https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B26QZc97k0noYTAxMzUxZjgtMzZkZS00MWEwLWEyZmYtOWRkMzliNWZhMDA3&hl=en"]My Triumph Document Repository[/url]

trv8
Wedgista
Posts: 1112
Joined: 20 Dec 2007 17:22
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Postby trv8 » 15 Nov 2010 03:53

Just use an empty oil can, cable tie it and stick your breather pipe in through the top. Job done [:)].
I had a fancy oil can in mine [:D]
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-866-motul-3 ... -cars.aspx

Hasbeen
TRemendous
Posts: 6474
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 12:32
Location: Australia
Contact:

Postby Hasbeen » 15 Nov 2010 04:13

Yes Dave, the engine oil treatment. In 64, after driving a car in the Bathurst 500, [miles back then], on SAE10 oil & STP successfully, I then tried it in the Morgan.

We could not get more than 40 racing miles before the copper lead indium big end slipper in the cap, [but not the one in the rod], was down to copper, using the best oils Shell could give us.

With STP in the same oil we got to 120 miles, with no sign of wear. The car was then sold, so I don't know how long they may have lasted.

TRV8, my system was something like that. My can was a brake fluid can, [no plastic cans then], with the breather piped to it.

It was attached with a couple of hose clips. No plastic cable ties back then either. You young people today just don't realise how hard we old timers did it back in the day.

Where can I borrow a violin?

Hasbeen

trv8
Wedgista
Posts: 1112
Joined: 20 Dec 2007 17:22
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Postby trv8 » 15 Nov 2010 05:17

Hasbeen, youngsters of today don't borrow violins any more, they just get one of these [:D]....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzjkBwZtxp4

elsberry
Rust Hunter
Posts: 141
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 02:26
Location: USA
Contact:

Postby elsberry » 15 Nov 2010 15:07

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Hasbeen</i>

Yes Dave, the engine oil treatment. In 64, after driving a car in the Bathurst 500, [miles back then], on SAE10 oil & STP successfully, I then tried it in the Morgan.

We could not get more than 40 racing miles before the copper lead indium big end slipper in the cap, [but not the one in the rod], was down to copper, using the best oils Shell could give us.

With STP in the same oil we got to 120 miles, with no sign of wear. The car was then sold, so I don't know how long they may have lasted.

Hasbeen
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I asked because my dad always used it for as long as I can remember and I use it today, but it's getting harder to find these days where I live for some reason. I still have a case of it though, stored away, so I'll be safe for a while.

He insisted on ever engine he ever built that it was basically coated in it internally. I've just picked up the habit from him, and all my cars run it, and every engine I build is assembled with it... Of course YMMV, but...

Dave Elsberry
1980 US spec DHC
1974 Jaguar SIII XKE
1994 Jaguar XJ12
I need more garage space!


[url="https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B26QZc97k0noYTAxMzUxZjgtMzZkZS00MWEwLWEyZmYtOWRkMzliNWZhMDA3&hl=en"]My Triumph Document Repository[/url]

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 121 guests