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The Zenith Stromberg Carburetor Saga, (again)

Posted: 15 Mar 2008 17:08
by Workshop Help
I became aware of this website whilst sorting thru the effects of my late nephew, as he visited this site frequently. He, and I, and his cousins interacted on various problems we all encountered on our TR7's, and took the time to compose the experiences, just as I taught all my students over the years. One of the experiences we shared was the adjusting of the fuel system and carburetion.

Prior to any tinkering with the Z-S carburetors, one MUST examine and ensure the proper conditon of the compression AND the ignition componets. This means the spark plugs must be cleaned and gapped. The spark plugs wires have no breaks or current leakage. The rotor and distributor cap contacts cleaned and not damaged. The coil is putting out it's proper voltage at all RPM's. Also, the fuel pump must be functioning correctly and the fuel filter(s) are not clogged.

All vacuum lines must be in good condition including the vacuum lines behind the panel in the trunk under the gas cap. The pre-heater hose from the exhaust manifold to the air cleaner must be in good condition. This is especially important in cold climates as the Z-S units are designed to function best when they are at a temperature of about 100 degrees F. Once these steps are done, one will need a few important tools.

The special tools for adjusting the Z-S carburetors are few, yet vital. To adjust the mixture, a long handle 3/16" hex wrench and a extra large common screwdiver are needed. Or, one can order the special made adjusting tool from Vict Brit for about $9.95. Then there is the balancing tool. A rubber hose in your ear is effective, or order from Vict Brit the synchronizer tool for about $34.95 as is noted in this Spring 2007 catalog. As for determing the correct mixture for combustion, Vict Brit will sell you the Colortune kit for about $69.95, or you can become adept at pulling the #2 and #3 spark plugs to find the preferred light tan color of the insulator nose down to it's base. As you can see, there are two ways to deal with ones tool needs, the expensive way and the thrifty way. Both ways are equally effective. The Haynes Publishing Group puts out a Z-S CD Carburetor Owners Workshop Manual that makes for good reading. The fuel section in the factory workshop manual is also illuminating, as are the exploded parts sections in the various parts catalogs. Let us also not forget the various websites dealing with the Z-S units. These carburetors were used on many different models of cars.

To start with, what are the color of your spark plugs? Are they all a light tan or are they caked in a dry black soot? Are they dripping with oil? Are they bleached white? Are they all the same color? The color we seek is for all to be a light, clean, tan. The mixture is controlled primarily by the needle that is attached to the piston/diaphragm assembly. It is accessed by removing the four screws in the top chamber of the unit. Set aside the screws, lift off the chamber noting how it was installed, then pull out the spring. With rag in hand, lift away the piston/diaphagm assembly and place it on clean newspaper on your workbench. There will be a slight drippage of oil/gasoline from the inside.

Examine the needle. It should not be bent. It should not be gouged. It will probaly be caked with evaporated gasoline deposits if the car has not been used on a regular basis. Remove the deposits with fine sandpaper taking care not to gouge the shank. Examine the rubber diaphrgm for cracking, tears, or holes. Manipulate the rubber thoroughly, if any holes appear, install a new diaphragm. Of note, with the ever changing nature of motor fuels and the introduction of various alcohols into the mix, expect to replace your diaphragm on a more frequent schedule as they deteriorate. There is also a small O-ring that seals the needle assmbly in the stalk of the piston. If you must frequently add oil to the stalk, that O-ring has perished. This is common and many let it go and just add a squirt of oil as needed. Reinstall the piston assembly in the reverse order noting the rubber tang on the diaphragm goes in the slot in the carb body.

Remove the air cleaner assembly. Is your air filter dirty? Replace it as needed. Clean out the inside of the air cleaner and set it aside. Remove the six 1/2" bolts and the inner air cleaner assembly. At this point, we will check the float levels. Using a 1/4" drive ratchet with a socket to fit a screwdriver bit, remove the six screws from the bottom of the float bowl. Yes, we are leaving the carburetor bodies mounted in place. The back center screw is the hard one, use the bit and an approprite open end wrench to access it. This is done by braille. Once the screws are out, jiggle off the bowl as gently as possible as gasoline will spill. Do not worry about the gasket. With the bowl on the work bench, clean the accumulation of deposits from the bowl. This is why the fuel filters are so important. Remove the float needle and confirm it rattles up and down freely. Remove and clean the float noting the flat side goes down. Using a razor blade clean away the gasket remains from the float bowl and the underside of the body. Using a pane of glass and a sheet of very fine sandpaper, grind flat the float bowl flange to ensure a leak free surface. This is a soft aluminium and needs little pressure. Reassemble the float needle and float. To check the float level, use a small 6" ruler to measure the distance from the body to the float bottom. The factory calls for 5/8". We have set ours at 11/16" with no ill effect. Bend the float tab, keeping it level to achieve the setting desired. Note this is all done with your head upside down, so maintain your perspective. Reinstall the float bowl with a new gasket. Move on to the the next carburetor and repeat the process.

Now we come to the tuning phase. Start the car and let it warm up. As noted above, the carburetors function best at a temperature of about 100 degrees F. While waiting, check your float bowls for leaks. Stop the engine and remedy any leaks immediately. We do not use any sealants on our gaskets as the correct fuel level keeps the fuel below the gasket line. If you have an infrared temperature gun, observe the carburetor temperature rise along with the upper radiator hose and thermostat housing temperatures. Without the tempertaure gun, feel the upper radiator hose getting hot and note the inside temperature gauge rising to it's normal operating range.

With the hose in your ear or the synchronizer tool in hand, listen/see how the rear carburtor is hissing/the tool's float ball has risen. Remembering this, do the same on the front carburetor. Are they both the same? Recheck both units. If they are not, adjust the idle adjusting screw on the left side of the carburetors to balance the air flow for a steady idle of about 800 RPM. Recheck again. Rev up the speed and hold it there for a brief period to clear the intake tract and recheck idle speed and balance again. This sets the idle.

To synchronize the units when accelerating, there is a balance bar with two adjusting screws. The factory manual says to set the clearance at .010". These screws are not for setting the idle, they are for syncronizing the carburetors. Raise the RPM from 800 to 1600 and check the air flow balance. Adjust these screws to achieve a balance.

Now we come to the mixture. If the sparkplugs continue to display a light tan, you're okay. If not, the adusting tool is fitted thru top of the carburetor, down the stalk to fit in the hex nut. Rotate the wrench clockwise to richen and counter-clockwise to lean while holding the piston from rotating with the large screwdiver if you do not have the mixture tool. Turn the wrench in small amounts and check the mixture. Those with a Colortune will see this happen imediately or if you are so lucky to have a exhaust analyzer, the same. For those without, drive the car for a while and check the spark plug color until the light tan is achieved. Then recheck the air flow balance. The original factory setting for the CO level is shown on the sticker on the underside of the hood.

However, after all these years, it is doubtful they can meet those emission standards due to wear of the various componets such as the piston to bore, the needle and it's bore, the throttle shaft and it's bushing. The best we can do is dial in as best we can for smooth running and economy of operation.

The parts commonly needed for this excercise are two float bowl gaskets, the diaphragms, and the tools. They can be found from all the major and most minor vendors. Victoria British supplies a free catalog and has online service. TRF is online, as is British parts Northwest. A common question is the kind of oil used in the needle stalk. Many opinions are out there and we have used a wide variety of oils over the years ranging from engine oil to Marvel Mystery oil to gun oil to sewing machine oil. We cannot detect any difference in how the piston rises in our use of the cars.

Mildred Hargis

Posted: 15 Mar 2008 18:33
by calex59
Thank you Mildred, I appreciate this greatly and have saved this to my hard drive, and I am sure I will be using it in the future. Right now my carburetors are ok and running correctly, but I am sure that this will not always be the case!

Posted: 17 Mar 2008 17:00
by nuttynotty
Hi Mildred
Very useful, Yep I’m new to this form, I am also new to TR7 but being a Britt been around BL for many many years 25 years Plus, All of my past cars have has SU ( Skinner Union) Carbs. Till now…. She is a 1979 TR7 All original minus the US Emissions. Have been trying for 2 weeks to get a smooth tick over, but to no avail, She will not tick over smooth, sounds like she is running on 3 cylinders, but all 4 plugs are tan on coloue, the carbs are balanced using the correct tools ( air flow meter) the Exhaust Emissions are good using a CO2 meter. All the plugs are new, along with the leads, dizzy cap and rotor, has electronic ignition so points or condenser…. The compression is good on 85,93,92 & 96 PSI, but still she runs very lumpy, pull any of the plugs leads when running a differences seen ….. Any ideas??[?]

Posted: 17 Mar 2008 17:49
by jclay (RIP 2018)
Check the banjo bolt going to the brake vacuum assist. It can loosen with time and cause a vacuum leak. Make sure the distributer cap is fitted properly.

Posted: 17 Mar 2008 18:22
by nuttynotty
Hi Mildred
Very useful, Yep I’m new to this form, I am also new to TR7 but being a Britt been around BL for many many years 25 years Plus, All of my past cars have has SU ( Skinner Union) Carbs. Till now…. She is a 1979 TR7 All original minus the US Emissions. Have been trying for 2 weeks to get a smooth tick over, but to no avail, She will not tick over smooth, sounds like she is running on 3 cylinders, but all 4 plugs are tan on coloue, the carbs are balanced using the correct tools ( air flow meter) the Exhaust Emissions are good using a CO2 meter. All the plugs are new, along with the leads, dizzy cap and rotor, has electronic ignition so points or condenser…. The compression is good on 85,93,92 & 96 PSI, but still she runs very lumpy, pull any of the plugs leads when running a differences seen ….. Any ideas??[?]

Posted: 17 Mar 2008 18:57
by nuttynotty
Jclay,

Have removed and plugged, and since then replaces all the hoses to the brake booster. I am stumped, its almost a stage 2 cam has been fitted....... Hmmm valve timing I have not checked. is this a posibility ?

Posted: 17 Mar 2008 20:01
by Workshop Help
If I may suggest, your compression readings seem on the low side. We would prefer to see them up past the 120lb mark and within a 10% cylinder variance. I am assuming the spark plugs are Champion RN-12Y or an equivalent heat range.

Per chance, have you cleaned the metering needles of all evaporated gasoline deposits? Are you absolutely sure the diaphragms have no tears, holes, or cracking?

About a month ago, Abner, using the infrared temperature gauge, discovered the front two cylinders were not as hot as the rear two and the engine running very rough after a short start up period when all was well. He pulled the front carburetor slide/diaphragm out to inpsect it for tears. Being that it was only about two years old, we were sceptical. Sure enough, we couldn't find any holes or tears. There were a few patches of light crazing, but no visible penetrations even when the rubber was streched. Then came the float bowl dismantling to check for a stuck inlet valve and the float level. Then replacement of the spark plugs, wires, and coil on the theory that 95% of all fuel system problems are solved in the ignition system. WRONG! Not this time, the problem remained.

Back to the diaphragm. A new one was installed and the nightmare was over. Diagnostically, we had done everything right yet, there it was. That diaphragm was bad, but we couldn't see why. We still pass it around the table at night but have yet to find the hole.

Mildred Hargis

Posted: 17 Mar 2008 22:17
by nuttynotty
Hi calex59, Was not too bothered regarding the compression, as they are all within each other? she has 78K on the clock which is original, along with a history of services. Both carbs have been stripped and cleaned, no tares or nicks in the diaphragms
. She was put our of service 10 years ago when the original couple moved to CO from TX (CO approx 6500 above sea level), where I bought her as they could never get her to start, I have ran compression test with and without oil in the cylinders, their was only a small change between, so I assume the rings and valves are holding air… if you chance the tick over to 1500 RPM she runs smooth… its just at low rev . Was their ever an injection TR7 or failing that what 4 cylinder engine is almost a drop in apart from the sprint. Want to keep her running but do not want the expense of a V8 o V6.

Posted: 18 Mar 2008 01:03
by Workshop Help
Yes, there was a fuel injected model for the 1981 season.

The Z-S units are quite good and will deliver a smooth idle and good performance when set up and maintained.

Have you cleaned the needles in the piston/diaphragm assemblies? When these cars are not operated regularly, the gasoline evaporates leaving a powdery deposit on the metering needles. It is easily removed with very fine sandpaper. Also, one can swab out the hole the needle goes thru to the float chamber on the offhand chance it may be slightly blocked.

There is nothing overtly complicated about these carburetors to give one pause. Fuel is pumped by the fuel pump into the float bowl thru the inlet needle valve controlled by the float that is adjusted by bending the float tab to give about 5/8" to 3/4" clearance, depending on which source one reads. Vacuum from the engine draws the fuel up thru the hole while being metered by the needle in the slide/diaphragm assembly. The slide is controlled by the engine vacuum, being raised by the negative pressure on the top side of the diaphragm. The incoming air is controlled by the butterfly valve operated by your right foot. The incoming air and fuel are mixed together in the chamber and drawn down the intake tract to the backside of the intake valve.

It opens, the fuel/air mixture enters, swirls around, and is ignited by the spark plug, BOOM! That's it in a nutshell. These are simple side draft carburetors that have been exquisitly designed to meet the U.S. EPA regulations of the late 1970's, whereas the S-U could not.

Mildred Hargis

Posted: 18 Mar 2008 03:43
by Hasbeen
Nutty, I'm assuming you have done the usual things, checked fuel
filters, & pump strainer, & the carbs are not flooding. & I gather
you have checked for air leaks in the inlet system, so there's a
fair chance your problem is not with the carbs.

I have found a couple of other problems with 7s, that have sat for a
long time, which present as a a tick over problem.

Have you checked the ERG, exhaust re-breathing valve. this could be
feeding one carb too much exhaust air. I don't know if you can do it
for legal reasons, but I always blank the things off, as they can be
a problem after a long rest.

I have also had problems with rust on the valve stems, which can
cause problems for a 1000 miles or more, after rebirth. The valves
can stick, intermittently, not quite closed, at idle & cause
problems, which disappear at elevated revs. A sure sign of this is
backfiring through the carb, from time to time, at low revs.
The same effect can be caused by old carbon build up, flaking off, &
getting caught under an exhaust valve.

Have you checked the valve clearances? The idle of 7s is a bit
sensitive to clearances. If they are more than 2 thou too tight, it
will start to cause problems at under 800 RPM.

Listen to your carbs, with a tube to your ear, in the front of them,
with the filter removed. You should have a smooth, constant sucking
sound. If there is any flutter, or syncopation, in the hiss, there
is a valve [as above] or inlet tract problem, sucking air.

If you haven't cleaned the engine out all ready, do so now. Give it
about 100 miles with a new filter, & a highly detergent diesel
engine oil, then another 200 or so miles with another filter, your
chosen oil, & a BOTTLE of STP oil treatmenT. This stuff tends to
dissolve all the dried oil gunk, that is gumming up your rings,
valves etc, after a long period of disuse.

Believe me, its a lot easier to get your low milage engine going
properly, than to start swapping.

Hasbeen

Posted: 19 Mar 2008 06:51
by FI Spyder
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nuttynotty</i>

Was their ever an injection TR7
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bosch EFI was aparently (so I've read) available as early as 1979 as an option. I've seen it one a 30th Anniversary Special edition (early 1980 production.) While it is rumored that 1980 TR7 Californian models had it as standard that is not true as I've seen an early (1980)Californian Spider with Zenith carb. . My Californian Spider (made in July 1980) has FI and on the bill of sale it had "$465.00 option (required)" so it would seem Californian TR7's made in first part of 1980 the EFI was optional and in the later part of 1980 it was a required option. In 1981 to make it more staight forward all 1981 TR7 US production was EFI. I know of one 1981 TR7 that has carbs but it was an EFI converted to carbs for what ever reason. To convert to EFI you would need intake manifold w/ sensors, injectors, air mass sensor, throttle assembly, ECU, wiring harness, exhaust manifold drilled for bung for oxygen sensor, comes to mind (in other words the whole shebang.) Not that easy unless you have a donor setup that some one has for a carb conversion (why would they do that), or a donor car.

TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra
Image

Posted: 19 Mar 2008 15:05
by nuttynotty
Hi Hasbeen,

Many thanks for the information, The carbs have been removed and cleaned, the intake / air flow /leakage has been checked, however I have found that the first tapet above cylinder 1 is pretty tight, but not all the time ???? tight enough that you can’t get feeler gauge under the cam, I think I have just found my problem. Why its intermittent is scary , Time for the head to come off. Many thanks for all you input. Cheers

Posted: 19 Mar 2008 22:39
by Hasbeen
Nutty, don't rush in. Your compression readings agree with a riding
valve in No 1, so try the following, first.

There are a number of very expensive possible reasons for the
variable valve clearance, like loose valve seat inserts, or a valve
stem that is stretching, but its probably not that major. Its quite
possable someone re-shimmed the valve clearances, with one valve
sticking just a little open.

I did that with a 7 that had had a few years hibernation a few years
back. After I got it running, one exhaust read 38 thou. I re-shimed
it to 18 thou. It then continued to backfire, cough, & splutter, [at
idle] for 300 miles, before I checked the clearances again, & found
that valve now had no gap at all. The STP had freed up the valve, &
it was no longer sticking.

I expected I would have a burnt valve, & would require a full top
overhaul, with a new valve, but I re-shimed it anyway, & drove the
car for 4,000 Km, before I sold it. The bloke I sold it to used it
as a daily driver for 4 years, with no valve problems.

You could be just as lucky. My suggestion is, re-shim that valve &
make sure it has clearance. You may have to do it twice, as you
don't realy know your starting point. Then, give it another oil &
filter change, add another bottle of STP, & go drive the thing for a
couple of hundred miles, checking the valve clearance a couple of
times along the way. It will probably be a nicely behaved TR7 from
then on.

If you have a deeper problem, its done all ready, & you are unlikely
to make it much worse in a couple of hundred miles, but it is
possable.

Good luck

Hasbeen

Posted: 21 Mar 2008 03:30
by dmachura
I was wondering if someone could please explain how to measure valve clearances properly.

Posted: 21 Mar 2008 09:13
by Hasbeen
Its pretty easy, It just takes a bit of care, to get it right.

Just remember that its a slant engine, so when we say a cam lobe
is "up" the pointy bit should be pointing up, but at right angle to
the head, not vertical, to the ground.

It is best to do this when the engine is fully cold.

So, remove the cam cover.

Rotate the crank shaft until one cam lobe, [the pointy bit],
is "up", at right angles to the head surface the cam cover sits on.

Now slip a feeler gauge between the bottom of that lobe, & the cam
follower below it.
The clearance should be, inlet valve 8 thou, Exhaust valve 18 thou,
so select the apropriate thickness of gauge, or combination of
gauges to start with. The gauge should be a firm push, or pull to
silde in or out.

If in doubt about what is a suitable push, select a 2 thou gauge & a
gauge 2 thou less than you have measured the gap to be. You should
beable to just slide the combination of them both, into the gap,
with out the 2 thou gauge bending up, & being squeezed out.

Record the clearance of each as you go, including the number of the
valve, & what it is as you go. Eg.
No 1 Exhaust
No 2 Inlet ETC. until you have checked them all.

Repeat the above, using another bit of paper, to check yourself, if
its your first time. Use a different bit of paper, as using the same
list, tends to make you repeat any mistake, you may have made the
first time.

You now know what your clearances are, & if any require re-shimming.

Hasbeen