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alternative to Lucas alternator

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black_1980_tr7
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alternative to Lucas alternator

Postby black_1980_tr7 » 03 Sep 2005 03:53

I just went through the last 1 year of topics, and couldn't find one
on part alternative to the Lucas alternator in the subject title...I
read through these pages in the past and saw that someone
described installing a GM PN#####(?) into their TR7...

My alternator died tonight...luckily the wife let the clutch out while
I pushed and we were able to get home on what charge the battery had...

It appears that when the engine is cold, the alternator can make
enough current to have an output voltage high enough to get the
voltage pointer high on the voltage gauge, but after a while, the
voltage droops and the pointer falls to 1/4 sweep...if I disconnect
the battery while the engine is running...the engine will stop...
this verifies to me the alternator isn't providing any charging
current or anything much in the way of output power

[V]

letstorque
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Postby letstorque » 03 Sep 2005 07:41

Would it be a Delco unit if its from a GM? Same mountings. Different plug i think.

Eunos Roadster.
Triumph Stag.
Fhat GS 300 Sport.
If you ain't got 8, you ain't got enough.


If you have to ask why, then you will never understand.

String back Gloves in my Auto-mo-love. OTR.

black_1980_tr7
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Postby black_1980_tr7 » 08 Sep 2005 02:20

Yes I found the instructions on page13 of the topic listings too,
for the Big GM Conversion Alternator...however, I'm a bit lazy and
have 0 means for cutting steel to fashion a new bracket...so I
spent sometime at a local auto parts store and found a modern Bosch
96Amp to 110 Amp Alternator that is almost the same exact size as the
Lucas 25ACR Alternator, with the exact same mounting posts in the
same positions/orientation (did Bosch buy out Lucas and reuse their
tooling?)

I'll take a few photos and install it tomorrow and update
the curious on how it turned out.

ObiRichKanobi
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Postby ObiRichKanobi » 08 Sep 2005 04:22

I'd be interested in how this works out, and the source and part number...

1980 TR7 Spider, Bosch Jetronics EFI.

black_1980_tr7
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Postby black_1980_tr7 » 09 Sep 2005 16:35

I took photos along the way, but installation was rather uneventful...
if people want, I can write up a web page with the instructions below
and include the photos like I did for the TR7 clock.

Something in my alternator broke, after 25years, it could no longer
provide any output current, and locally its getting hard to find
parts service for older British cars (some don't even recognise
that Triumph was a company that made cars...just like Nash).
So that's why searched out an alternative replacement.

parts needed:
a) GM Delco-Remey #8215 Alernator, in US/Canada GM Saturn
brand cars from 1991 to 1996
(I've seen auto part web sites indicate 1991 to 2002)

from George's Auto Parts, St. Clair Shores, MI

used salvage alternator $35
rebiult alternator $100
new from dealer $150

This #8215 Alternator is actually a Bosch unit, and is available
from many auto parts stores and internet auto parts suppliers.
The #8215 Alternator is a little smaller than the Lucas 25ACR
alternator, but it fits into the TR7 without having to make a bracket
or do use any special tools. Although the #8215 is smaller, it will
give all the benefits of modern technology and 96Amps, versus the
Lucas 25ACR's 65Amps.

b) #85854 Alternator pig tail harness, from AutoZone, East Pointe, MI
new from dealer $43
#85854 from AutoZone $7

c) 2.5" diameter with 0.67" shaft hole, from a
Ford MotorCraft alternator (AutoZone, free from a smashed
alternator someone brought in on an exhange, 1975 to 1990 era?)
no number was visible on the alternator guts

d) sleeved male spade terminal connector
e) male & femaile sleeved barrel terminal connector

I wanted these to be different to avoid any chance of misconnection,
and sleeved or protective coated to avoid anything touching the
metal surface and causing a short circuit.

1) remove 1 end of the air by-pass hose, and charcoal canistor hose
and fold those back out of the way (my car is an EFI car)
2) remove upper adjustment bracket bolt to the alternator
3) disconnect electrical connections from the rear of the Lucas unit
4) disconnect lower mounting bolt thru the alternator's lower holes
5) loosen and fold up the upper mounting bracket out of the way
6) remove old alternator

7) on the pig tail harness, cut & remove black wire (not needed)
8) cut red and brown wires 3 inches or 75mm long
9) remove 5 groove belt pulley from #8215 alternator, replace with
2.5" V pulley from a Ford/MotorCraft alternator
10) crimp a barrel shaped terminal on the brown pig tail lead
11) crimp the matching barrel shaped connector on the brown/yellow
wire in the TR7
12) crimp male spade terminal connector on the red pig tail harness
13) plug this little harness into the #8215 alternator
14) with a clamp, squeeze the #8215 mounting insert deeper into
its mounting hole as deep as possible, the extra 1mm is
all my alternator needed to fit in the my TR7

15) install the long bolt through the lower alternator mounts first
16) install the high current, big brown battery wire in the TR7 to
the B+ bolt on the back of the #8215 alternator
17) connect the spade and barrel connectors to the other 2 TR7
harness wires (brown TR7 spade terminal-ed wire to the red
pig tail harness, TR7's brown/yellow wire to the brown
wire of the pig tail harness)
18) install the upper mounting bracket bolt
19) install the alternator belt
20) pull the alternator to increase tension on the belt and then
tightened the upper mounting bracket bolt
21) re-install the charcoal canistor and air-by-pass hoses

Start the car, and measure the voltage applied to the battery,
under little electrical loading, the #8215 alternator was appplying
14.7V at the battery on my TR7.

[:)]

black_1980_tr7
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Postby black_1980_tr7 » 09 Sep 2005 16:44

WARNING: as a safety, disconnect your existing battery as the first step
[:D]

jclay (RIP 2018)
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Postby jclay (RIP 2018) » 09 Sep 2006 03:46

Hi!

Black_1980_tr7,

I was driving arould the other night, lights on, driving lights on, fan on full, stereo blasting and then the cooling fans kicked in, ING light came on, looked at gauge, needle buried in the red. Turned off blower fan and driving lights. ING light went out. I remembered reading your post, so I went to the Auto Zone around the corner. Same Question, "Triumph, who makes it?"

Anyway, bought the alternator off the shelf and the connector was hanging on the rack enshrined in it's own little blister pack. That was the easy part!

Yadda, yadda, yadda, (saving you time and my fingers!) Took forever to find pully, went to Alt Shop accross town (30 Miles), he had one, took it off old alt and put it on mine, cost $5US. Installing at 3:00am, guess what! Upper mounting hole on old unit is threaded, new is not! Strange thread size. Searching for bolt and nut to fit. Other than that, your instructions were great!

Went out next night, everything on and alt was holding it's own! Driving today, and the needle is on the high side, but everything seems alright!

Thank you, Now the only things not working correctly are the a/c and the fuel guage!

jclay

Darren Motamedy
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Postby Darren Motamedy » 11 Sep 2006 23:00

Maybe I'm a nut, but I just bought a rebuilt alternator from Victoria British, and it works just great without having to fabricate anything......it just works with minimal effort installing.

Good Luck,
Darren Motamedy

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by black_1980_tr7</i>

I just went through the last 1 year of topics, and couldn't find one
on part alternative to the Lucas alternator in the subject title...I
read through these pages in the past and saw that someone
described installing a GM PN#####(?) into their TR7...

My alternator died tonight...luckily the wife let the clutch out while
I pushed and we were able to get home on what charge the battery had...

It appears that when the engine is cold, the alternator can make
enough current to have an output voltage high enough to get the
voltage pointer high on the voltage gauge, but after a while, the
voltage droops and the pointer falls to 1/4 sweep...if I disconnect
the battery while the engine is running...the engine will stop...
this verifies to me the alternator isn't providing any charging
current or anything much in the way of output power

[V]


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

jclay (RIP 2018)
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Postby jclay (RIP 2018) » 11 Sep 2006 23:57

Hi! Darren,

There is nothing wrong with the Lucas alternators. I only have a problem when I have a lot of things on at the same time: Fuel pump, A/C cooling fans, Heater blower fan and compressor, headlights, driving lights and radio. I had all of that on one night and it started to rain, turned on the wipers and the car stopped. Turns out that it melted a fuse HOLDER, but did not burn out the fuse!

I went and bought a Jaguar Lucas Alt and put it in as I was doing all of the rebuilding. The first night that I took the car out and the cooling fans came on, so did the "ING" light and the gauge was buried on the discharge side. Once I changed to the "Saturn" alt, that all went away.

I am not dis'n the Lucas alt, but the Saturn alt puts out 30 percent more amps. I'll go with Tim Taylor, "More Power!"

Have fun, drive fast, be kewl,

jclay
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silverseven
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Postby silverseven » 12 Sep 2006 17:02

Not to start a fire here, but I do beleive there is also a lack of quality issue (or two) with the V.B reconds ....

I seem to remember "Urchin" having many a woe with a V.B. replacement a few years back ....Maybe he could chime in if I'm wrong [;)]

Ron.

<i><b> 1982 TR7 dhc</b></i>
<i><b>1978 TR7 fhc</b></i>
<b>_________________________________________________________________</b>

ImageImageImage

black_1980_tr7
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Postby black_1980_tr7 » 12 Sep 2006 21:51

One positive note for the Lucas alternator, it did last 102K miles
and 25 years so one can't bash its quality too much.

Although rebuilt or reconditioned Lucas alternators can be OK,
remember that they are 20+ years old and aren't as efficient
electrically, thermally and magnetically as modern units. The Bosch
alternator I installed does put out >30A more power, and gives
a more stable output voltage independent of engine RPM. At idle
and coming out of idle with the Lucas alternator, my headlamps would
brighten up, which indicates that the Lucas alternator couldn't
generate enough power at low RPMs. With the Bosch alterantor,
the headlamps are always bright, with or without driving lamps
or other electrical loads.

I didn't put it in my original posting, but when the Lucas alternator
broke on me, I was 7 days away from attending the 2005 Detroit
Triumph Sports Cars & Motor Cycle Car Show...so getting a
replacement alternator from out of state or far away would have
meant that my TR7 might miss the show depending upon shipping speed.
As a result of installing an alternator that was locally
available...my TR7 was ready for the show on time.

[:)]

I didn't take the TR7 to the show this year, but I did take a
Primrose Yellow E type for anyone in MI, USA that attended this
year. I think I'll take the TR7 back again next year.

jclay (RIP 2018)
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Postby jclay (RIP 2018) » 12 Sep 2006 23:40

We all love our TRs and if we want to continue driving them for another 20 to 30 years more, we will have to update them with newer technology.

Yes, there are a lot of traditionalist out there who believe that if the part number don’t match, you have committed some kind of heresy! If we stuck with the old ways, we wouldn’t even have TR7s and 8s. We would be talking about things through carrier pigeons and not on the World Wide Web.

Do as you will, but for me, I will embrace any new technology that makes my 7 better and last longer! (Maybe even go faster!)


Have fun, drive fast, be kewl,

jclay
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silverseven
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Postby silverseven » 13 Sep 2006 00:13

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by black_1980_tr7</i>
One positive note for the Lucas alternator, it did last 102K miles
and 25 years so one can't bash its quality too much ....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

for the record, I was not bashing the oem Lucas, mine also lasted 24 years....it's the rebuilt ones that give me the shivers ....




<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by black_1980_tr7</i>

I didn't put it in my original posting, but when the Lucas alternator
broke on me, I was 7 days away from attending the 2005 Detroit
Triumph Sports Cars & Motor Cycle Car Show...

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey, at least you had 7 days, when mine went I didn't even have 24hrs .....

Ron.

<i><b> 1982 TR7 dhc</b></i>
<i><b>1978 TR7 fhc</b></i>
<b>_________________________________________________________________</b>

ImageImageImage

jclay (RIP 2018)
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Postby jclay (RIP 2018) » 13 Sep 2006 22:29

Hi,

Yes, I know the difference between the fuses. This was a PO who install the fuse in the main power lead going to the ignition, the same person who wrapped a piece of aluminum foil around a fuse in the main fuse panel.

All have been replaced with the proper british fuses now.

Have fun, drive fast, be kewl,

jclay
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ACW30445
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Postby ACW30445 » 13 Sep 2006 22:43

"This was a PO who install the fuse in the main power lead going to the ignition, the same person who wrapped a piece of aluminum foil around a fuse in the main fuse panel."

Actually I got to thinking...oh heck he knows that...so I deleted the post!

Ah yes, the well known and loathed DPO (dreaded previous owner). The kind prone to pop riveting aluminum sheet (also drilling thru the nice headliner) on roof of a vinyl roof car and spreading gobs of bondo over the rust followed by lots of cheap spray can paint. I know this because of....let's say a personal experience with a car of mine. It was a Dallas, TX car also....very little surface rust underneath...two pounds of bondo on top. Which made the situation about 100 times worse than it was. Did I mention most of the roof was clean and he painted the whole roof topcoat..with a brush? In cluding areas well outside what the top covered? And spread bondo all over the place even where it was only clean metal?

All it needed was a little actual rust repair and a new vinyl roof, instead it got the bodge job that I will long remember.

Can't account for what folks (idiots) do to 'vintage cars'...even really cool ones. Glad your wiring harness didn't go down in flames.

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