TR7 - Mild Tuning....

[Hoops]

What can i do to get a bit more ooomph from my 7? Was planning on getting one of these -

http://www.123ignition.nl/brand/Triumph.html

On recommendation of a good friend which should help.

Also at some point get a sports exhaust as mine sounds like a van atm and not particularly nice with the top open [:(]

But will any of it make much difference, as i have been advised by some that i should not Sprint/V8 it as its a relatively rare edition...

What are the best value upgrades?

Cheers [:)]

[Triumph TR7V8 coupé]

Hello Hoops,

Tuning an engine can start from simple and cheap to rather complex and expensive.

Some cheap and good solutions are: air intake (replace standard filter by K&N), exhaust (replace original system by a tubular exhaust system along with adapted carburetor needles).
These changes can be made without opening the engine so the work and cost is kept low. You could also install an up-rated ignition system but this is already more expensive.

If you want to open the engine then there’s a vast choice of possibilities: cam shaft, headers, pistons, crank, etc. There are almost no limits here neither for the cost of this all.

Lightening things helps also but again more work is involved (flywheel or engine parts)

Greetings, J.

[PeterTR7V8]

I'd go for a mildly uprated cam, bigger carbs then tubular exhaust headers. Good air filters really do make a difference. Replacing the coil & points with electronic bits will go a long way to keeping it in tune so not necessarily a go-faster mod but it does help you get the best out of what you have.

[Hoops]

Any links for the cheaper end of engine tuning bits (cam etc)? I guess bigger carbs are HS8's? I quite like the SU's as they are simple and i know my way around them.

Any views on the 123Dizzys? Anyone used them compared to the electronic 'kits' like 'lumentronic' etc?

Cheers [:)]

[Hasbeen]

Hoops, first of all, how is your bottom end. If it is well worn,
even getting back to stock BHP is likely to kill it.

How well looked after has your car been. If it is an average 30 year
old car, it would be lucky to have 75% of its claimed BHP. Most
cars have around 5 to 10% less than their claimed BHP, when they
leave the factory, & loose another 15% by the time they have
50,000Km on the clock. Just bring then up to what they should have
had makes a world of difference.

Most 7s on the road in Uk would have less than 85 BHP right now.

Distributors DO NOT give you any BHP, they can however rob you of a
great deal, if worn. I got a reputation of being a wizard tuner of
Minis, & Coopers in the 60s, because of their Lucas Dizy. Those
dizys were so worn in less than 10,000 miles, that the ignition
timing would be wandering around through 25 degrees.

With the dizy rebushed, & timing set, the original power was
returned, & they thought the car was flying. Of course this only
worked if the dizy was shot. A new dizy is unlikely to be much
better than yours, if it is converted to electronic. If the
difference in cost is great, overhaul what you have, provided it is
electronic.

I can't agree with Peter on the big carbs. Your inlet manifold,
porting, & valves are your limiting factor, not the carbs. Big
carbs will only cost you bottom end performance, unless you do a
full head job.

However, as J says, you can get quite a bit cheeply.

Overhaul the carbs, if they are not in good condition.

Fit performance air filters.

Fit extractors, [Tubular exhaust in the UK].

The above improvements will require a set of BAL needles in the
carbs to match the better air supply.

Your camshaft is probably worn out, replace with a mild, "fast road"
cam. Don't go for any more as the inlet system can't use it, & like
big carbs, would cost bottom end performance. Only get a known
camshaft. A NEW standard cam is better than some unknown thing off
E Bay, & is a good idea if bottom end performance is important.

Do a top job on adjusting valve clearances. These engines dont like
the wrong clearance. They loose a lot of BHP when these are wrong.
Remember, the clearance should be set to the cam suppliers spec.

Fit a high performance coil, new plug leads & iridium plugs.

The above will give you a car with around 120/125 BHP, which will
comfortable out accelerate a stock Austin Healey 3000, & will be
fun to drive.

Hasbeen

[Hoops]

Cheers for the reply [:D]

I dont know the condition of the inside of the engine, not had a look yet.

It seems Exhaust and K&N's seem the considered choice at the moment, something i can do easily.

[Hoops]

SS-Preparations do a 'Supertune' kit, the base one has -

SAS70355 Tubular Manifold Stainless Steel
SAS70353 Sports Exhaust System Stainless
SAS70357 Sports System Fitting Kit
SAS70215 Exhaust Manifold/Head Gaskets
SAS70305 KN Filters (pair)
SAS16059 Metering Needle BAL (pair)

FOr £385 + Vat

Does that look like a good deal?

[Hasbeen]

That sounds like a very good starting point. That with the other
gear well serviced, dizy, plugs, leads, & valve clearances may give
you everything you want.

Sounds like they have that setup as a "most bang for your buck" deal.

Hasbeen

[Hoops]

I already have new Plugs, Leads (although now covered in oil [:(] ) so the main shopping list is a 123Dizzy / Electronic Ign and probably the SS-Prep Kit, Then alloys, tires, bodywork, heater matrix.... [:p]

[Gubi]

I would recommend against K&N filters. The data I have seen do not support any increased performance from using them, and they do not clean the air as well as paper filters.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

The second link had some great graphs of testing data, but unfortunately they appear to be down right now. But basically the conclusions of both studies are that the air flow difference is minimal to nonexistent and that the K&N lets more crap into your engine.

These guys do great marketing. Filters, not so much.

-----
Tom
'79 TR7
'87 Alfa 75
'91 Alfa Spider

[jeffremj]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Century Gothic, Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Hoops</i>

What can i do to get a bit more ooomph from my 7? Was planning on getting one of these -

http://www.123ignition.nl/brand/Triumph.html

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Why not get the real thing:

http://www.btinternet.com/~triumph/edis.htm

If you upgrade to this mapped ignition system, you can use better sparkplugs such as the 4 prong variety.

I wouldn't change the SUs for bigger HS8s, because the Rover V8 can get at least 165bhp out of 2 carbs the same size as the TR7 8V.

I would also keep the standard air filter box if you are going to use the car in the winter, otherwise you may get carb icing up problems.

[Hasbeen]

Tom, I don't use K&N filters, I use an Ozie product, Ram Flow by
Finer Filters, a foam filter.

The filter I use requires the change to BAL needles [3 stages richer
than stock] for the thing to be able to exceed 2700 RPM. With the
stock needles it does not run above 2700, as it is just too lean.

I am advised the result is the same with K&N filters, hence S&S
including BAL needles in their kit. For this result there must be a
very considerable increase in air flow through the carb.

I really only changed the filters on my 7 because I hated that ugly
great box, cluttering up the engine bay. I was more than a little
surprised when the air flow was so increased that the car could not
be driven on the road, until the richer needles were fitted.

From a performance point of view there is only one real test, & that
is by stop watch, [or dyno]. With just the upgraded air filters,
& needles, before I fitted the exhaust, I ran the car down the
quarter mile, at the local track.

It was 1.1 seconds quicker over 3 runs averaged, than it had been a
few weeks earlier, with a best of 17.1, not bad for a stock 7, with
over 120,000Km on it at that time. It would be quite a bit quicker
now, with the exhaust, & ignition improvements.

I can only suggest that your blokes testing with his manometer is
wrong. I have only used them for testing back pressure, & am not
sure if they really work his way.

From the point of view of filtering, I believe there is quite a bit
of exageration about that too. I ran a Morgan +4 for 25 thousand
miles, including 5,000 racing, with no filter at all. There was no
measurable wear anywhere in that engine.

Jeffremj, in my experience extensive mapping is actually used to get
a highly tuned engine to run acceptably at lower revs. I know the
computer on my 4.6L 8 does nothing with the ignition after 3800RPM.
I was talking to the computer people last week about upgrading to
their latest unit. They told me it would do nothing more for my
peak power, tham my 8 year old thing does, but would give me a
little below 3000, & a bit better fuel consumption. Hardly worth
$3500.

I would be surprised if mapping would do much for the peak power of
a low tune slant 4 in a 7. Still I could be wrong, I was once
before.

You are probably right about the possibility of icing without the
filter box, Mildred has mentiomed that too. Where I am, it would
only be one day every few years when it could happen, so I don't
think of you poor folk in all that cold.

So there you are Hoops, lots to think about.

Hasbeen

[FI Spyder]

A friend got the supertune kit from S&S including SU's to replace his Zeniths and said it transformed the engine into one that freely revs. He does want a bit more power but I told him his next step is to go to 9.25 to 1 pistons (from 8 to 1) and a mild cam. He's going to wait till he needs to open the engine because of extra costs. (He doesn't do his own work.)

TR7 Spider - 1978 Spifire - 1976 Spitfire - 1988 Tercel 4X4 - Kali on Integra - 1991 Integra

[jeffremj]

Hasbeen,

The Megajolt system would only cost around 200 pounds sterling and a reason one would use it is just for the fun of it. You can spend hours and hours playing around with ignition maps to get rid of that annoying flat spot at x rpm only to see it appear elsewhere, without getting dirty! [:)]

The Megajolt system was, for me, an item 20+ years in the waiting. Back in the 1980s I wanted such a DIY device, but knew it would be very expensive and/or time consuming to make it myself. 20 years later, you can now get secondhand parts and a £100 ECU with software!

It is so easy to do, much easier, cheaper and more fun than fitting and setting up a new fueling system.

In my experience, on both the 16V and the V8, this ignition system makes the car more 'robust' at 30mph in 5th gear, it adds a soft rev limiter, it adds rudimentary idle stability and it allows up to 9000 rpm (if needed!). On the rolling road, I got a 2.5% performance increase in peak torque (at lower revs) in the V8 - the ignition map being a 'back of envelope' type of thing.

Mike.

[Gubi]

Hasbeen,

I'm not saying there's no advantage to improving the intake flow. If the flow restriction is in the airbox then I could see how changing the airbox would make a difference. That and the stock airbox (at least on my TR7) has a carb heater line that's designed to keep the intake air at 100F...you pull that off and switch to a cold air intake and you'll run a bunch leaner (cold air = more dense). Has nothing to do with the type of filter media, though.

I can tell you those tests were done properly with a manometer measuring pressure drop across the filter at typical flow rates (I'm a Chem E and I've done a bunch of filter analysis back in my refinery days, so I've got some experience with this). Comparing apples to apples (i.e., same intake design) an equally sized paper filter doesn't offer any more significant flow restriction than a cloth or foam filter, period. The pressure drops for both are just laughably small.

As an aside, my TR7 had a K&N panel filter in the stock airbox when I bought it. Swapped it to paper. Runs exactly the same.

I'm pretty confident if you replaced your foam filters with equally sized paper ones with your new intake setup you won't see a difference. But from what you're saying it sounds like I could see some improvement by modifying the intake box to improve flow, which is good to know.








-----
Tom
'79 TR7
'87 Alfa 75
'91 Alfa Spider