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TR7 Engine Rebuild Advice

Here’s where to discuss anything specific about your standard(ish) car or something that applies to the model in general.
dursleyman
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby dursleyman » 13 Apr 2018 16:22

Ref the engine stand mounting, I prefer this side mounting type so you still have access to the rear seal and flywheel area.
Not my picture, its from a guy on the Dolomite Forum.

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Russ

1981 TR7 Sprint DHC
Dursley
UK

http://tr7russ.blogspot.co.uk/

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johnnyj
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby johnnyj » 13 Apr 2018 18:24

Hasbeen wrote:Check the cam follower buckets for straight. They usually turn into a fat lady shape, fat in the middle then rock.

Hasbeen


Thanks Hasbeen, just the sort of info I need. I wouldn't have thought of checking those. Many thanks.

John
Triumph TR7 FHC, 1977

johnnyj
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby johnnyj » 13 Apr 2018 18:27

dursleyman wrote:Ref the engine stand mounting, I prefer this side mounting type so you still have access to the rear seal and flywheel area.
Not my picture, its from a guy on the Dolomite Forum.

Image


Cheers Russ. I could make something like that if I had some of that lovely box section laying around. However for the benefit of others looking to do what I'm trying to do and searching this thread in the future, I found some bolts at https://www.margnor.co.uk/166f031x350.html

That side-mounted arrangement does look fab though. Thanks for sharing!

Cheers

John
Triumph TR7 FHC, 1977

johnnyj
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby johnnyj » 20 May 2018 19:42

Hi everyone

Just a quick update since the last one: I bought an engine stand from a seller on ebay for £37 and it works a treat. Since then I have painted the block in high temp paint, fitted a new crank with new bearings/thrust washers etc, re-shimmed the cam buckets (that took ages!), re-built and fitted the oil pump, bought a new water pump, fitted new core plugs to the block and head, fitted all new timing gear (sprockets, chain, tensioner, guides etc), painted the oil filter housing, fitted a new fuel pump, blown out every orifice with compressed air etc. The list goes on but the work is enjoyable.

On the subject of the water pump. How on earth do you get the bush out? The one in the block, I mean. I have searched forums (fora? :) ) high & low and only really found a post about filling the hole with grease and using a dowel to push it out using hydraulic pressure. That didn't work for me. Any thoughts?

Many thanks

John
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Triumph TR7 FHC, 1977

dursleyman
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby dursleyman » 20 May 2018 22:44

Ref the water pump spindle bush that sits down in the block, I had a look on the Dolomite forum and "Jonners" who wrote the book on how to do water pumps says he wasted too much time over the years trying the grease and other methods. His solution is to just use a punch to destroy it and you can then just pull it out with a pair of pliers. Crude but effective apparently.

ps before anyone asks, Jonners is sadly no longer with us, another great source of expertise gone.
Russ

1981 TR7 Sprint DHC
Dursley
UK

http://tr7russ.blogspot.co.uk/

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Hasbeen
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby Hasbeen » 21 May 2018 05:26

Be careful of the water pump.

After my engine rebuild about 4 years ago, I had an occasional overheating problem. It could even get a bit hot on part of a drive, then behave perfectly most of the day.

We ultimately found, with great difficulty, that the impellor was not a full tight fit on the shaft, & would sometimes slip, then sometimes not slip. By the appearance of the shaft it would get hot, & or galled, then grip, but not always.

This was one of the most difficult things to diagnose I have ever had.

Hasbeen

Stag76
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby Stag76 » 21 May 2018 08:09

Replace it with an EWP...one of the best things you can do to these motors.

johnnyj
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby johnnyj » 21 May 2018 20:42

Stag76 wrote:Replace it with an EWP...one of the best things you can do to these motors.


Thanks Stag. Just been reading all about them and they look like a good option. The only issue I have is one of preserving the car's originality, as I had promised myself (and the car) that it would be "stock" when back on the road. Not many '77 FHCs left really in the grand scheme of things so I would like it to be as it came out of the factory. Ok, not "exactly"... :lol:

I'll have a good think about it though.

Cheers

John
Triumph TR7 FHC, 1977

johnnyj
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby johnnyj » 21 May 2018 20:47

dursleyman wrote:Ref the water pump spindle bush that sits down in the block, I had a look on the Dolomite forum and "Jonners" who wrote the book on how to do water pumps says he wasted too much time over the years trying the grease and other methods. His solution is to just use a punch to destroy it and you can then just pull it out with a pair of pliers. Crude but effective apparently.

ps before anyone asks, Jonners is sadly no longer with us, another great source of expertise gone.


Thanks Dursley, for the advice and for going to the trouble of looking on the Dolly forum. Really appreciate it.

I am coming round to that way of thinking. It scares me though to bash the old bush out as if in doing so I knacker the block, I am, erm, knackered. The other option of course is to leave the old one in situ, but I really wanted to replace it for peace of mind.

Cheers

John
Triumph TR7 FHC, 1977

johnnyj
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby johnnyj » 21 May 2018 20:56

Hasbeen wrote:Be careful of the water pump.

After my engine rebuild about 4 years ago, I had an occasional overheating problem. It could even get a bit hot on part of a drive, then behave perfectly most of the day.

We ultimately found, with great difficulty, that the impellor was not a full tight fit on the shaft, & would sometimes slip, then sometimes not slip. By the appearance of the shaft it would get hot, & or galled, then grip, but not always.

This was one of the most difficult things to diagnose I have ever had.

Hasbeen


Thanks Hasbeen, what a nightmare! I never knew that the pump required such intricate set-up when re-installing, or that it was so fragile.

Some years ago (I was about 22 at the time, now 48) I took my TR7 on a continental trip and the water pump failed. As it happened a mate of mine was flying through the area at the time so he bought me a new pump in the UK and we did a quick exchange at the airport before he got on his tour bus.

When I got back to the car we had no tools (such as the slide hammer) to remove the old pump, so we parked the car on a steep hill, tied the pump to an olive tree and let off the handbrake. Amazingly that pulled out the pump! We then fitted the new one with no thought at all about gasket clearance, impeller erosion etc.

No wonder that the car then spewed oil and water from the holes in the block, and eventually the big ends went somewhere on the Paris ring road. Still made it back, though :)

Happy memories

John
Triumph TR7 FHC, 1977

sonscar
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby sonscar » 23 May 2018 21:39

Replacing the pump is not the black art that it is perceived.Using the manual and leaving the slide hammer in its case it is a tedious and time consuming task but a competent home tinkerer should be able to do it in an easy day.If I can credit Beans look at his blog for invaluable advice.Good luck,Steve

Beans
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby Beans » 24 May 2018 20:10

So far I never had to replace the bush, but had to work on the water pump a few times over the years.
Some of the work I did and the problems I encountered, can be addressed through the link below ...
http://tr7beans.blogspot.nl/search/label/Water%20pump

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Image
1976 TR7 FHC (currently being restored ...)
1980 TR7 DHC (my first car, a.k.a. Kermette)
1981 TR7 FHC (Sprint engined a.k.a. 't Kreng)

http://www.tr7beans.blogspot.com/

johnnyj
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby johnnyj » 24 May 2018 20:29

Beans wrote:So far I never had to replace the bush, but had to work on the water pump a few times over the years.
Some of the work I did and the problems I encountered, can be addressed through the link below ...
http://tr7beans.blogspot.nl/search/label/Water%20pump

Image


Thanks Beans, you must have been gutted when the impeller broke. I made a tool much like yours to wind out the brass cage, which worked really well.

My conundrum is caused by the Rimmer Bros site, where in the water pump section it shows the bush with the words "Always Replace When Renewing Pump". Thanks Rimmer Bros, but any chance you can tell me how to get the damn thing out? :lol:

I have a spare scrap block which I practiced on today. I tried the "attack the bush with a screw driver and a hammer" method, which to be fair did remove the bush but did some damage to the block. So I won't be using that method on my project engine. I think I am down to two options: leave the old one in (but I soooo want to change it) or make a tool which will remove it. At this stage I am favouring the latter.

Cheers

John
Triumph TR7 FHC, 1977

Cobber
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby Cobber » 25 May 2018 08:33

I second the motion for an EWP.
For such as ours that aren't in or ever likely to be in the stratospheric value league like classic Buggatis or Ferarris, I say Bugger original.... you only ever end up the factory original problems coming back again and again.
Which perpetuates and cements our cars poor reputation in the narrow minds of the great unwashed public.

So long as there is an example of total originality in a museum somewhere, the rest of us, whilst still keeping the car's character should not be afraid to use some modern technology to solve the original designs shortcomings, thereby having a car that's more usable and enjoyable. It's not like such a modification is irreversible, it could easily be returned to standard.
"Keep calm, relax, focus on the problem & PULL THE BLOODY TRIGGER"

'80 Triumph TR7, '73 Land Rover (Ford 351. V8),
'97 Ford Falcon Longreach 'S' ute,
'98 MG-F, '69 Ford F250.

Stag76
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Re: Engine Rebuild Advice

Postby Stag76 » 25 May 2018 09:44

More of our engines have been destroyed by that water pump than anything else.
It was a flawed notion from the outset, designing a cooling system that had low and high
pressure points in the block. It was located where it is in the first place because SAAB
wanted to use the engine in a FWD car, so the pump couldn't be located on
the end of the block in that configuration and still be used in RWD cars.

The original TR7 road test by Autocar ended in a cloud of steam, with the works taking
the car away to investigate (actually meant hide it).

As I've said before, take it out, throw it as far as you can with either hand, install an EWP,
then say good bye to strict coolant replacement procedures, cavitation, impellor slipping,
pump cover clearance, air locks, overheating, head gasket failure, head warping, jack shaft
failure and whatever other maladies it is responsible for.

A friend in UK, Roger Philips, has a jack shaft mounted on a board like a trophy that failed due
to poorly meshing skew gears on the water pump, snapping the bicycle chain that drives the cams,
and destroying his Stag engine...not once but twice.

I fitted an EWP to the Sprint Motor in a TR7 I had, and was amazed at the cooling improvement
it made. The cooling fan would only switch on for approx. 3 minutes after being stopped in traffic
for 10-15 minutes, due to the pump speed being independant of the engine speed.

The power saving is estimated to be up to 10KW by removing the belt driven fan and mechanical pump.

Another added bonus it that it frees up an extra eye to watch the road instead of the temperature gauge.

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